look at it:

block based: local lights + sunlights + shadows - [no great shaders for blocks] + pp effects

model based: model shaders + sunlights + dynamic shadows[thank god for that] - no local lights and shadows from local lights + pp effects

lightfrog: local lights + sunlights + shadows + model shaders - [no pp effects YET]

models plus baked lights - sunlight + model shaders + dynamic shadowns + pp effects - [problems with models being affected by baked lighting]


personal need: sunlight + local lights + shadows[static or dynamic] + pp effects + model shaders


ofcourse you can still accomplish greatness with these for MOST games but note i'm only writing this based on what i need for our game [scion] and ofcourse i know there are workarounds for alot of these but what may seem like a simple solution may increase devtime by months.

sometimes maybe as independent devs we tend to focus too much on insignificant details hence our projects take forever to finish

Looks to me like all you need is to learn how to write shaders. Add good shaders for blocks and "block-based" will fit your personal need perfectly. It's easy. Believe me. Just try it.

Countless times 3DGS's shader programming has been cited as one of its biggest strengths. I've written deferred shader chains (100 dynamic lights on-screen at the same time? No problem) with god-rays, soft particles, fur shaders, multi-texture shaders, fast shadow mapping, fire and water, sub-surface scattering, atmospheric scattering... and what's my training? The 3DGS shader workshops. And I'm far from being the most prolific shader programmer in this community. In the end, I find shader programming the easiest part of game development. I've never used the built-in shaders.

Improved standard shaders are something A8 needs for newbies, not for experienced users/teams making the "next big thing", IMHO. Maybe I've just been raised on GS and know nothing else, but it generally meets my needs, and I've never needed plugins. A8 introduces a lot of features that I looked at and said to myself, "Wow. I've got to get this."

Jibb

well, i have two A7 projects in work. one would be already finished if achaziel would find some time to do my skins. and the other one is progressing nicely, i work on it in my freetime so it will take a few weeks. still, if anyone is doing me models from THIS THREAD it will take way less than a few weeks

While i do know that this is true, however it does increase dev time if i have to be start looking at something else rather than working on the game itself, which is why having someone dedicated to shader programming is a huge asset, i mean, even with what i just listed, i am doing quite nicely with my project, graphically

One of the major selling points you see for most engines is: "focus on your actual game and let 'engine name' do the heavy lifting for you"

so it really increases devtime when you have to be at the core of things even though this does give you the ability to write exactly what you need, maybe i'll look into shader programming after i've released our current game, even thinking of learning now would increase the devtime too much which is the concern.

I dont really blame the engine for much, most times i can see my inability to accomplish certain tasks and yes i do see alot of cool little features for A8 but the topic of this thread is about gs dying not about if upgrading to A8 made sense... and to be honest, from a NEW PERSONS point of view, theres not alot to attract them to the engine...

the sad reality is and it applies to games, movies: MOST people come for the eyecandy and stay for the content

GS doesnt have enough eyecandy to attract the majority, thats how i see it

Its true people come for eyecandy. But that's not something this engine lacks -- it's not something an engine provides in the first place. The assets are provided by the user, and I still stand by this engine being one of the best for shaders.

It's the website that doesn't present itself well. There are ugly projects in every engine, and great looking ones in most. But GS's website cries out death.

Jibb

oh yes i do agree with you on that shader topic.. sometimes it really does look nice to tweak and see how some shaders behave and i know there are beautiful projects but the GS site doesnt bring them up front, also, i know i can accomplish good looking games but i wonder just how easy it is for a newcommer to do the same, since attaining those nicer graphics tend to include using usermade content not highlighted by the site/engine...

maybe reworking the website shouldve had a higher priority, i mean, i thought it'd change for A8, i was looking forward to it, even when A8 was released i still didnt notice a change on the page, then i noticed the ugly 7 just changed to an ugly 8 and i was like... thats it ? lmao

@DarkInferno: True words.
HEY we had a shadercontest with nice looking results. A frontpage with those results + a presentation video for 3DGS with those Demos would help.


Gretes
Rackscha

Yes. Unity3D ftw!

Yes it would.. but who's gonna do it ? this idea has been up for Quite some time, i even remember JCL starting some post asking for good looking videos, i guess i ASSUMED it was for a new video gallery but god knows what it was for

I totally thought the shader contest was for the purpose of making show-off screenshots for the engine, but nothing was done with it. I was linking to the GS website on my website, and was actually hesitant to do so -- I wanted to say "It's not as bad as it looks!"

So yeah, I agree, website should have a higher priority.

@darkinferno:
I was in a rush before, and didn't mention it, but I guess it does make sense that you're not trying to learn shader programming in the middle of a big project on a schedule. I'd seek involvement if I didn't already have my hands full.

Jibb