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Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: WretchedSid] #380276
08/15/11 12:17
08/15/11 12:17
Joined: May 2009
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3run Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: JustSid
They (Valve) had also to think about performance. You just can't have a big map the whole time in memory and let it render every frame, you have to stream the map. Having thousand of functions running every frame with their own stack is also a no go for performance.

The straightforward way of just pushing everything in the level and then blaming the engine if it fails might look easy and like a way worth going, but reality is that you have to think too. Sorry if this destroys your view of the world now.
First of all, I'm not professional such as Valve guys... Should that mean that there is no way for me to make cool and fast FPS game?
I've made really fast movement and weapons (did everything I could do to make it fast!), but placed grass models and 20-40 fps?!



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Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: 3run] #380277
08/15/11 12:28
08/15/11 12:28
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,751
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WretchedSid Offline
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Originally Posted By: 3run

Plus it's written in LUA, I don't know it.. it's may be faster than lite-c, I don't even know.

LUA is interpreted and thus by definition slower than Lite-C. Given a good compiler, C is one of the fastest languages available. Here is a nice comparison:
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/wh...&calc=chart
(I'm not saying that the Lite-C compiler produces equal fast output as GCC, plus I'm also pretty sure that Clang-LLVM can produce even faster code).


Originally Posted By: 3run
First of all, I'm not professional such as Valve guys... Should that mean that there is no way for me to make cool and fast FPS game?
I've made really fast movement and weapons (did everything I could do to make it fast!), but placed grass models and 20-40 fps?!

No, I'm not saying that you can't do it. I just wanted to point out that everyone has to put some thoughts into performance.
Plus, your problem was already pointed out by Nils, the problem is the heavy alphablending. A task which isn't done by the engine but by your graphic card so blame it if you want to blame something wink


Shitlord by trade and passion. Graphics programmer at Laminar Research.
I write blog posts at feresignum.com
Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: 3run] #380278
08/15/11 12:28
08/15/11 12:28
Joined: Jul 2008
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Germany
rayp Offline

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I have never seen a good looking big 3d shooter running fast with this engine, nor done by myself or any other person around in this forum. Show me, then i believe.


Acknex umgibt uns...zwischen Dir, mir, dem Stein dort...
"Hey Griswold ... where u gonna put a tree that big ?"
1998 i married my loved wife ... Sheeva from Mortal Kombat, not Evil-Lyn as might have been expected
rayp.flags |= UNTOUCHABLE;
Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: WretchedSid] #380279
08/15/11 12:33
08/15/11 12:33
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,370
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Originally Posted By: JustSid
A task which isn't done by the engine but by your graphic card so blame it if you want to blame something wink
I've already said that I've tested compiled version of my project with my other PC, and it has NVIDIA GeForce GT 430.
I've played a lot of great games with high settings on it, games which require tough PC, and I'm getting 20-40 fps with 80 bushes? grin


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Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: rayp] #380280
08/15/11 12:34
08/15/11 12:34
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Originally Posted By: rayp
Show me, then i believe.

Afair it was you who accused A8 to be slow so actually its your task to prove it wink
Beside that, why should I put time and effort in something that doesn't even remotely interest me? Like I said, its not easy but its doable.


Shitlord by trade and passion. Graphics programmer at Laminar Research.
I write blog posts at feresignum.com
Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: WretchedSid] #380283
08/15/11 13:01
08/15/11 13:01
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
Slin Offline
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Making good games needs a lot of time, knowledge and experience. If you lack one of those things, you won´t be able to create good/complex/big games. There are endless tricks to make things fast and if you start with doing the worst thing possible performance wise, which is alphablending with lots of pixels, you do something wrong.

About the 6 Zombie example, what shaders do you use, how are the zombies animated, are you using stencil shadows?
99.99% of the shaders around are extremely slow, because they where never really optimized in any way and just thrown together by beginners, as for example me 5 years ago. Bone animations on the CPU are also very slow, because it needs your vertex data on the gpu to be updated every frame, while doing it in a shader is a lot faster, especially in combination with tangents, depending of your models, this can speed things up like 10 times and a best case scenario. Stencil shadows in gamestudio are really slow. Don´t use, or use very lowpoly meshes for them.

Edit: There usually is a reason if things are slow and most of the time, there is a solution, which has nothing to do with the engine.

Last edited by Slin; 08/15/11 13:04.
Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: Slin] #380286
08/15/11 13:12
08/15/11 13:12
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,370
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3run Offline OP
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I did everything I know (what I got from the manual) to make things fast...
Ok, framerate problem is my bad, not only mine but my old outdated graphic cards...


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Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: Slin] #380287
08/15/11 13:17
08/15/11 13:17
Joined: Jul 2008
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Germany
rayp Offline

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I dont use any kind of shadows cause then is everything over ^^

I used the std. mtl_specBump shader and animated them via ent_animate (bones). The model itself had +-4.000polys. 512x512 dds texture.thats it.

But i dont want to talk much about it, i just wanted to say i have fps probs too (nearly always).

Last edited by rayp; 08/15/11 13:22.

Acknex umgibt uns...zwischen Dir, mir, dem Stein dort...
"Hey Griswold ... where u gonna put a tree that big ?"
1998 i married my loved wife ... Sheeva from Mortal Kombat, not Evil-Lyn as might have been expected
rayp.flags |= UNTOUCHABLE;
Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: rayp] #380289
08/15/11 13:22
08/15/11 13:22
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
Slin Offline
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Quote:
I used the std. mtl_specBump shader and animated them via ent_animate (bones). The model itself had +-4.000polys.

That shader needs tangents, if you would do the animations in a shader it could very well be a LOT faster.

Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: Slin] #380292
08/15/11 13:32
08/15/11 13:32
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,107
Germany
rayp Offline

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How can i do that ? As u know iam a shader noob. U have an example of that ?


Acknex umgibt uns...zwischen Dir, mir, dem Stein dort...
"Hey Griswold ... where u gonna put a tree that big ?"
1998 i married my loved wife ... Sheeva from Mortal Kombat, not Evil-Lyn as might have been expected
rayp.flags |= UNTOUCHABLE;
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