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Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: WretchedSid] #380293
08/15/11 13:35
08/15/11 13:35
Joined: Jan 2003
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Cambridge
Joey Offline
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Joey  Offline
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alpha blending istn't that slow. on my old gf 440 mx i got around 30 fps for an approximate 10x full-screen overdraw with additive alpha blending.

Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: Joey] #380295
08/15/11 13:41
08/15/11 13:41
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,370
Caucasus
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So, isn't that the problem causing low framerate for me?


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Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: Joey] #380299
08/15/11 14:41
08/15/11 14:41
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,363
Vindobona (Ostarichi)
Harry Potter Offline
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Vindobona (Ostarichi)
Originally Posted By: Joey
alpha blending istn't that slow.
I agree.

In my project (Pax et Bellum) I use thousands of grass models with alpha channel.
And I have no problem with the frame rate, because I use mipmaps and LOD.

Originally Posted By: Joey
Your grass has an alphachannel and it does not write into the depthbuffer, which means that every pixel is rendered for every grass plane every frame. And those are blended together, which means that the previous colour has to be read and mixed with the new one for every grass plane.
That's right.
But if you use mipmaps, only the smaller mipmap must be rendered when an object is far away. Rendering/blending is much faster then.
In my game I use very detailed textures (8192 x 8192 pixels). To render them as fast as possible, I use DDS textures with 9(!) Mipmaps.

Here you can see a screenshot of my game with thousands of grass models (all with alpha channel). The frame rate is higher than 60 FPS even though the level is not finished and optimized now (the grass models in this test level are old models with only 4 Mipmaps, and I use no LOD).


(click here to see the original size of the screenshot)

Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: Harry Potter] #380301
08/15/11 14:49
08/15/11 14:49
Joined: May 2009
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Caucasus
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Screens are great, you've done great job Harry Potter. May be I'll need to rewrite my project, so that way I could make it better or something...


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Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: 3run] #380303
08/15/11 14:53
08/15/11 14:53
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,207
Germany, Magdeburg
Rei_Ayanami Offline
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When I am not wrong, than you misunderstood him.

The things he discribed are no scripts but changes on the sprites (LOD/MipMap)

Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: 3run] #380304
08/15/11 14:53
08/15/11 14:53
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
Slin Offline
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Harry Potter: How do you handle sorting?

Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: Slin] #380306
08/15/11 14:57
08/15/11 14:57
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Rei_Ayanami, I've already done MipMaps with help of Harry Potter, I meant that may be I need to look more deeper into my problem.
And still, even Slin and others say that problem is with alpha thing, I don't believe that my PC can't draw 80 bushes!


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Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: 3run] #380307
08/15/11 15:05
08/15/11 15:05
Joined: May 2005
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Lübeck
Slin Offline
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As a quick test try this effect on your alpha stuff: http://www.opserver.de/wiki/index.php/ImprovedOverlay

Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: Slin] #380308
08/15/11 15:09
08/15/11 15:09
Joined: May 2009
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Caucasus
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Did, what was the point? Same fps, but still as I said earlier, fps problem isn't constant.


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Re: Engine is slow? Or am I nuts? [Re: Rei_Ayanami] #380309
08/15/11 15:12
08/15/11 15:12
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,363
Vindobona (Ostarichi)
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Originally Posted By: Rei_Ayanami
When I am not wrong, than you misunderstood him.
The things he discribed are no scripts but changes on the sprites (LOD/MipMap)
Yes.
When I do not use mipmapping, my game would run with less then 5 FPS. Because all my detailed textures will be rendered each frame. When using a texture size of 4096x4096 pixel (eg. a flat sqare model with a texture), the engine must draw 16777216 Pixels each frame for only ONE model.

So I use mipmaps to reduce the texture size of models that are far away. It's the same like LOD, but for textures.

For example: when you use a texture size of 4096x4096 pixel, then I use 8 Mipmaps for them.
The original texture has 4096x4096 pixels,
the 1st mipmap only 2048x2048 pixels,
the 2nd mipmap only 1024x1024 pixels,
the 3rd mipmap only 512x512 pixels,
...
mipmap number 8 will have a texture size of only 16x16 pixels. And this is rendered much faster than the original texture size of 4096x4096.

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