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Mac and Linux (no, really!) #389495
12/15/11 01:43
12/15/11 01:43
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
J
JibbSmart Offline OP
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JibbSmart  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
It must be close to a year since this has last been asked, but the indie gaming scene is evolving, so please just hear me out.

Mac and Linux gaming is growing. Linux gamers are desperate to get games that support Linux (source: the average Linux user pays more than twice as much for Humble Bundles as Windows users), and Mac support is increasingly common (between the huge success of Unity and many Valve games getting Mac support in recent times). More and more non-gamers are getting into games thanks to their iPhones, and most non-gamers I know (by a long shot, where I lived in Australia and here in Canada -- and most of my friends are non-gamers) own Macs. Their first taste of PC (as in personal computer, not Windows specifically) gaming will be on Macs.

I've received a lot of requests to have KarBOOM work on Linux, and more still for Mac support -- most of these potential customers don't own Windows PCs. I'm proud to be using GS, and when new developers ask about starting off in game development I always recommend GS. But I can't see myself sticking around for my next game if I can't get on Mac, and I'm sure that's why Dejobaan is using Unity now.

The Humble Bundle gets huge respect from gamers, not just as one of the first of its kind, but since every game in every bundle supports Windows, Mac and Linux. A lot of games make their Linux and/or Mac debut on Humble Bundle, and each bundle makes hundreds of thousands of sales. Getting in the Humble Bundle is a big deal for indie developers, but only available for those supporting Windows, Mac and Linux.

Finally, Unity does not run on Linux. With so many choices of engine to learn how to make games, and considering how daunting that process actually is, new developers (a big target for GS) want to start off on a cross-platform engine, and more experienced developers (such as Dejobaan) want to move to cross-platform engines. If a developer wants to support Linux, they move on past Unity. GS should catch them -- support for the 3 big personal computer OSes for those who want to make PC games, Windows or not.

As far as I know, a lot of GS features that previously relied on DirectX don't anymore. Rendering still does, and shaders use HLSL, but Cg is identical and works with OpenGL, so GS's extremely respectable shader programming features (which are my favourite part of GS) wouldn't be compromised as far as I can tell from all the way over here. I'm sure porting to more platforms isn't easy, but given you're working on Android stuff it's also certainly not too much to think about.

Anyway, thanks for reading,

Jibb

EDIT: Have some stats! (thanks, Error014, for finding most of these)
Originally Posted By: Frictional Games (Amnesia)
The distribution between platforms depends a bit on how you count it. In our own store it is as follows:
Windows: 70%
Linux: 15%
Mac: 15%
Source.

Originally Posted By: 2DBoy (World of Goo)
We were expecting the average price paid to be highest for Linux users and lowest for Windows users, but the gap was larger than we thought it would be [...]

Also, the per-platform download breakdown was pretty surprising, with Windows accounting for 65%, and Mac and Linux pretty much splitting the remainder evenly
Source.

35/65? That's a 54% increase in downloads thanks to a larger market. Yes, I know it's not necessarily indicative. But it's also not necessarily a maximum, especially considering how much more noteworthy our games will appear to the Mac and (especially) Linux gaming communities than they will in the Windows market. Case in point: another game, Lugaru, by Wolfire (developers of the very highly anticipated Overgrowth, which will also support Mac and Linux):
Originally Posted By: Wolfire (Lugaru)
From a short sighted, graph reading viewpoint, supporting Mac OS X and Linux directly increased sales by around 122%. However, this seemingly unbelievable number is actually understated. Here's my attempt at an explanation in five points...
Source.

That's right, 122% increase in sales with Mac and Linux support.

Oh, and here are the stats of every Humble Bundle to date. Check out the blue and green in those pie-charts!

Last edited by JibbSmart; 12/20/11 16:02. Reason: Humble Bundle stats and another pie chart

Formerly known as JulzMighty.
I made KarBOOM!
Re: Mac and Linux (no, really!) [Re: JibbSmart] #389497
12/15/11 02:14
12/15/11 02:14
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,183
Germany, BaW�
Rondidon Offline
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Rondidon  Offline
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Germany, BaW�
I absolutly second that. Linux is great for game developers nowdays. Many Linux users are techies. The market for game development suites has potential. There are just very few big players there although the community wishes to have such things. It would be a great chance to get a unique characteristic to Gamestudio and open up new marking possibilites for both Conitec and Gamestudio users.

Originally Posted By: Rondidon
Many Linux users would pay for a great game developing suite like GameStudio. Linux is an opoen source community. Techies and Open Source fans want to develop, not only to play. Maybe the market for a tool like Gamestudio is even bigger than the Windows market.


Originally Posted By: Rondidon
Linux and Mac are perfect markets for Gamestudio. Gamestudio is not an Unreal Engine 3 when it comes to usability for professionals. Everybody knows that. For Conitec and JCL, it`s all about finding the right marketing niche.


Originally Posted By: Rondidon
The most successful and highest-rated games on Linux are "Battle of Wesnoth", "OpenTTD", "Quake Live", "Nexuiz", "Super Meat Boy" and "World of Goo". It`s a wonderful playground for indies and hobbyists.


Originally Posted By: Rondidon
It`s about target group-oriented thinking and getting a unique characteristic to Gamestudio.



Re: Mac and Linux (no, really!) [Re: Rondidon] #389499
12/15/11 03:00
12/15/11 03:00
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,861
Kiel (Germany)
Superku Offline
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Superku  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,861
Kiel (Germany)
I think mobile platforms is a good sector for your game if it's done in less than half a year from now on or if it's already finished. Simply everyone, esp. the big publishers and studios, focus or start to focus this sector, thus the days of acceptance for low quality in terms of visuals or polishing "because it's just a mobile game" are over. The effort to create and the complexity of mobile games increase steadily, the statement that simple games can be successful there is worthless because there are millions of them, the market is already flooded.

Instead, I think we should focus on developing games for PC (/ Mac/ Linux). The market becomes smaller as publishers focus on console, mobile and social gaming and most modern games try to be as cinematic and accessible as possible. They ignore the market of millions of core gamers that often would prefer deep (maybe not easily accessible) gameplay, gamers who'd prefer a Quake (f.i. with simple/ old-school graphics) over a COD or people who are looking for games such as Cave Story or (2D) Metroid.
Thus I think we can target an audience of millions of people, who are btw. a different kind of gamers that are aware of and value indie games (where everything above 99cent or even for free isn't too expensive), when we develop f.i. simple or complex sidescrollers, highscore based games such as AaaAaAAA!! that don't require a lot of content and long single player campaigns or old-school fun shooters, esp. games for the non-casual gamer.

According to this I heavily support a port to non-Windows computers over a port to a mobile platform.

EDIT: The feature mobile/ multiple platform support probably is a pretty good advertising for GameStudio these days, but I doubt that any A8/ A9 game on Android will be a good advertising for GameStudio because those games are short-living and easily forgotten together with their developers and engines.

Last edited by Superku; 12/15/11 03:09.

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Re: Mac and Linux (no, really!) [Re: Superku] #389516
12/15/11 11:05
12/15/11 11:05
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,134
Netherlands
Joozey Offline
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Joozey  Offline
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Netherlands
Amen


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Re: Mac and Linux (no, really!) [Re: Joozey] #389523
12/15/11 13:12
12/15/11 13:12
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,208
Germany
Error014 Offline
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Error014  Offline
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Germany
Agreed on all points.

I'd much rather have Mac and Linux support than Android. Make it happen, Conitec! laugh


Perhaps this post will get me points for originality at least.

Check out Dungeon Deities! It's amazing and will make you happy, successful and almost certainly more attractive! It might be true!
Re: Mac and Linux (no, really!) [Re: Error014] #389533
12/15/11 13:58
12/15/11 13:58
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,207
Germany, Magdeburg
Rei_Ayanami Offline
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Rei_Ayanami  Offline
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Germany, Magdeburg
That would be awesome - and a even the announcement of something like that would be a great present laugh

Re: Mac and Linux (no, really!) [Re: Rei_Ayanami] #389535
12/15/11 14:28
12/15/11 14:28
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,183
Germany, BaW�
Rondidon Offline
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Rondidon  Offline
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Posts: 2,183
Germany, BaW�
I think Android is based on Linux (Kernel 2.6), isn`t it? So it should be relativly easy to support both Linux and Android. laugh

Re: Mac and Linux (no, really!) [Re: Rondidon] #389537
12/15/11 14:32
12/15/11 14:32
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,750
Canada
WretchedSid Offline
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WretchedSid  Offline
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Posts: 3,750
Canada
Android != Ubuntu or similar Linux distributions


Shitlord by trade and passion. Graphics programmer at Laminar Research.
I write blog posts at feresignum.com
Re: Mac and Linux (no, really!) [Re: WretchedSid] #389539
12/15/11 14:37
12/15/11 14:37
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,201
İstanbul, Turkey
Quad Offline
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Quad  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,201
İstanbul, Turkey
Having an android version means having a opengl ES renderer and that means no more directx dependency and then that means easier mac/linux port. This either means gamestudio completely switches to OpenGL even on windows or supports both directx and opengl. That could also mean CG support for shaders.

That also means either a lite-c compiler for different processors and platforms(android/linux). or maybe it could be that we are returning to C-Script.

I mean, i hope so.

Last edited by Quad; 12/15/11 14:39.

3333333333
Re: Mac and Linux (no, really!) [Re: Quad] #389540
12/15/11 14:42
12/15/11 14:42
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,206
Innsbruck, Austria
sPlKe Offline
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sPlKe  Offline
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Posts: 4,206
Innsbruck, Austria
I don't care about the technical riffraff (and frankly, I have no clue) but I care about reaching as many users as possible. So I agree with all of the original points and hope that Conitec listens!

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