I've briefly said something about this topic in that Bachelor-thesis-vote-thread, but no one replied. Of course, this is because everyone realizes the importance of this topic, and feeling that it should be discussed in it's own thread.


We know that games are hardly "mature" or "grown-up" in any way. We're still telling pretty basic, embarrassing stories for the most part, and few characters in gaming really stand out. Part of this problem could be, perhaps, the way we use stereotypes.
Here is a somewhat related (but not really) question, to get this going.


Which of these three games is the most misogynistic? Which is the most sexist? If you don't know the difference, I've been so kind as to link the words to their respective articles on infinite wisdom-platform wikipedia, though of course, parts may overlap.

If you don't know the games in question, here's wikipedia on them, and a quick summary by me. None of this is my own opinion - I've tried to stay neutral, I don't want to contaminate results.

For some, a quick search regarding [Game/Franchise Name] + [topic] could yield interesting results.


"Love Plus" is a "girlfriend simulator", whatever that means - Befriend and "fall in love" with your own japanese schoolgirl...girlfriend. I don't know, something like that.
Obviously, this is a cynical cash-in: Desperate nerds buy this game for a chance at love without fear of embarrassment. - Or do you think that this is, after all, a better approach to model relationships (no one argues that it is still very mechanical - the argument is that it is an improvement)? True, it is artificial love, but perhaps the heart of the developers is in the right place? The "girls" modelled with more respect to their characters as we're often used to? What do you think?
(Tinycartridge's coverage, which focuses on the humorous)

"Tomb Raider" is an extremely well-known franchise that had both great and awful games, with a heroine well-known even amonst non-gamers. Here, the female is the heroine of the game. But surely, it's only a women because it means the mostly male audience buys the game for ogling her! Her dresses are rarely practical, it seems, and it's clear that she's being objectified.
... But then again, she does have a backstory, and this well-known franchise does have its share of female fans. Perhaps looks are only secondary to her character, as really she is all about portraying a strong female lead, more than capable of handling herself? It's not like males are portrayed particulary competently in this franchise.
Note: There's also been a movie. This isn't about the movie, though if you wish, you may discuss part of that as well!

Duke Nukem Forever has been critized for it's portrayal of women. I haven't played it, so maybe I'm not the best to summarize. Someone else wants to give it a shot? In the meantime, here's an article, and here's two google searches.

And if you're into Destructoid, this seems relevant.


Note please that while the selection of games is only somewhat semi-random, it is still an arbitrary choice. They have been chosen since females in those games are portrayed very differently.
Also, I am aware that a
There's other examples that may or may not be worth discussing - feel free to name them in a reply.
If you don't care, that's fine as well. A sentence why would still be much appreciated.


This may have fit better in "Gameplay and Game design"?

Which is the most misogynistic? single choice
	Love Plus
	Tomb Raider
	Duke Nukem Forever
Votes accepted starting: 02/02/12 19:17 You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

Which is the most sexist? single choice
	Love Plus
	Tomb Raider
	Duke Nukem Forever
Votes accepted starting: 02/02/12 19:18 You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

Which of those have you played? multiple choice
	Love Plus
	Tomb Raider
	Duke Nukem Forever
Votes accepted starting: 02/02/12 19:18 You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

Do you care about this? single choice
	Not really. I couldn't care less / I think it's being blown out of proportion
	Somewhat. There's some room for improvement.
	A lot. This is an area where lots should improve.
Votes accepted starting: 02/02/12 19:19 You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

I'd say Duke is the only one that is outright misogynistic from what I've read about it.

Sexism is a weird issue... especially in games where all characters are usually presented as unrealistically strong, athletic, and resilient, so some would view it as simply overlooking differences in ability between genders for gameplay's sake, while others would deny there are inherent differences in ability between genders in real life anyway.

As far as I can see in the trailers, Love Plus is the only misandric game here. And to my interpretation that means that the male players of Love Plus have a negative feeling about themselves, why else try to hit on virtual little Asians. Forever Alone - the game.

Obvious from the comments comes a big desire from female gamers to have a male version of Love Plus. If there was a female version it wouldn't be misogynic per sé. On average, women just like to play strategic lovegames.

Duke Nukem was a bit sexistic at most for what I saw in the trailer. I don't see how playing that shows you might be misogynic.

And Tomb Raider is not much different than Amelia Earhart or Jeanne 'd Arc. "Just" another heroine. I've seen women who dress up as Lara Croft at festivals as their hero. But they surely aren't misogynic.

Also, I played none of the games, but I wanted to see the results so I clicked them all. So now the results relative differences are still accurate.

And lastly, I clicked that I don't care. I fail to see how there is improvement for something. Improvement for what? Perhaps the examples were poorly chosen. But I can't think of any game that can be clearly labelled as misogyny or sexistic.

While there's plenty of hyperbole in here from what I can tell, this article at the top of one of Error014's links makes DNF sound pretty misogynistic. It goes on about the "intent" of the game, perhaps in a sarcastic manner, but if certain scenes in the game are anything like what the article describes, the game (when paired with DNF's non-serious attitude and low-brow humour) must be misogynistic.

I see no misogynistic tendencies in Duke Nukem Forever. I mean one of the main character's most loved things are women so how should the game show "hatred or dislike of women"? What the game offers is lots and lots of Machismo in a totally overbooked way just as anything in that game is. It's made that way in order to be funny...

Yes, I also think so. Duke loves women. He saves the world just for the babes.

I mean .. could you be "misogynistic" to her?!

What real, strong female characters are there?


We're not arguing if the act of playing a game could make you misogynistic.



I fail to see the connection between the first and last part, but I'd be interested in hearing more about your reasons for believing that. Could you perhaps elaborate?
(My own opinion is that I'm totally unsure on what to think of Love Plus in the context of this question, so I really would like to hear your opinion on this!)


RE: Tomb Raider



I see that point. And I understand, to a degree, that she is portrayed as a strong female lead. But what, if any, of her "female qualities", if you will, are portrayed? It's not "none" (which would be okay, I guess - more like Mass Effect's (female) Shepard, perhaps?) - is it "appearance" (which could be argued means objectifying)?
As an addendum, it is worth nothing how extremely different the google-results are: Earhart, Croft, d'Arc. Yes, the context and audience of their stories are very different, but you cannot deny that there is a difference here. What meaning lies in the essence of this difference?


RE: Duke Nukem.

Portraying females as "trophies", if you will, is hardly showing respect.
The point is that constantly showing them as mere helpless objects, you're implicitly stating that females are less capable (if you're feeling extreme, call it "less worth") than men, which is nothing but misogynistic.

Of course, it's extreme masochism plays a role here. Is that an excuse? Is an excuse for this even needed?
Is Duke Nukem's "love for women" grounded in anything other than female appearance?

While I usually read your posts with interest, Error014, I cannot see why this thread even exists at all, why do you care which game is the most ""misogynistic""?
Duke Forever is just like an old (or modern) action flick, filled with hot girls just for the sake of entertainment. And that's not a bad thing, it's not degrading or anything like that, everyone knows that there are in fact such "sillies" in the real world the game is making fun of. Even if someone plays Duke for 100hours straight, I claim no one prefers a girl from this game over f.i. the likeable presentation of the character Alyx Vance from Half Life 2. People/ men are not that stupid.

I care about games like "My first boyfriend" and "dream boyfriend", because they`re feministic.
And feminism is the true evilness in the world!



(I`m just kidding).

No, seriously, I don`t see that problem at all. At least not for Germany where "talking about sex" is not really a problem to anyone.
Tomb Raider for example shows a tough young, very selfconfident woman. And there are many non-sexual games with girls in the main role. The Longest Journey and many other adventure games like Secret Files, Heavy Rain, Fahrenheit, Syberia, ...
Many girls like to play such games.

Well the background of the Duke Nukem Shooters were that Aliens come over and take the women for breeding purposes so you're going to see something in that direction in the game. I don't think that this contains any misogynistic. Also the thing about Duke's hot (and successful) Twins being kidnapped is rather a damsel in distress background (which is a common cliché often used in games or movies) for the story than being misogynistic or making women "trophies". Anyway - the game never gives a bad image of women. It also doesn't feature that many women after all. While it's true that the women shown usually are overbooked prostitutes or erotic dancers that's not a bad thing but just playing into Duke's hand in terms of his macho character...

Plus there also is Bombshell. I guess few people even know about this character as she didn't make it into the Duke Nukem Forever that was released in the end. She was sort of a female counterpart for Duke though. I guess that's the point where everyone can see that there really is no misogynistic in these games but just machismo, overbooked characters and a big portion of humor which might not be anyones taste though as it's always is the case for humor...

Bombshell:
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-18/art/dnf-bombshell2.jpg