If I ever should find time to work again on a project, I'm still tempted to use Neoaxis.
Possibly not the wisest decission, because Unity simply IS the industry standard and my knowledge gained by working with Neoaxis might be a loss of thime... but then again I somehow feel a lot more familiar with Neoaxis than with Unity after reading tutorials and playing around a bit with both.
Unity was somehow a bit too overwhelming... it possibly needs a longer evaluation time than I had.

Maybe it is useful if someone evaluates the possibilities of Neoaxis in the future

Just please... Ivan... give us a MANUAL.
Really really... This is such a big plus of Acknex. The manual is just great.


My point I don't share with many other developers... I'm actually NOT afraid of scripting - I'm afraid of wasting time in a level editor, because the workflow is bad and I cannot see what happens in realtime. I cannot write a class which allows me to setup advanced things in the editor directly.
I want to place some physic object, some joints in a 3d view and want to throw a ball against it and see what happens.
I want to drop a model in the editor, let it walk a path, adjust the walk speed at runtime, maybe fix the path for not getting stuck at obstacles and the like...

That is what is hurting when working with Acknex.
Neoaxis e.g. offers this, while still being not too far away from scripting.
A big advantage and drawback at the same time is you get a huge template code base and you're supposed to build upon it by inheriting classes.
Sounds like I will have a lot of unused code I've never seen and understood residing somewhere in the project space.
So the recommendation of the Neoaxis dev team is to extend the demo project and when getting to the end rip out the unused parts of the demo.
This is the drawback, as I don't like this approach too much.
When I checked the code, some things like the RTS templates looked far too specialized for serving as generic templates...
Also upgrading to a newer engine version will require merging some classes... yuck!

Lots of blablah from my side... still Neoaxis keeps me interested - currently more than Unity actually. Let's see where this will lead to in the future.

@Firoball: Which language is Neoaxis?

I just started with Unity today and i don't know what i think of it. I just tried some things like movement, animation, ... in script. Works really well but it doesn't feel right sometimes...
it isn't really smooth. also the API isn't documented in any way (I know that it is documented in a documentation, but i hate those people who can't use the built-in documentation features of c#...)

The Editor is great indeed. But there is a lack of documentation in all sections imho...

I want to code in C# so bad, but the acknex wrapper for c# isn't that good that you can code efficient. Maybe i'll start my own again with better support for object orientation...

*Thoughts and feelings out*

Right at the moment I find it overhelming that Unity requires OO. For small games and prototypes OO feels like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. But I hope I´ll get used to it.

Neoaxis is using C#. my main problem is that huge code package which should be used and extended with own classes, I simply can't see through it. probably requires more c# experience. and yes, its documentation is very limited. it's okay if one of the examples covers your game system, you have to tweak it only. its model importing workflow also seems to be not the best.

on the other hand, Esenthel engine (free or 100usd for a commercial project) offers you C++ or its own scripting language lying between C++ and C#. its documentation is also limited, little text and a well commented header browser of engine classes, but there are a lot of small tutorials those can be used for step by step learning, and also as little bricks of your code. its model importing is cool with many formats, visual physX body creation for models fast and easy, you can define and inherit object classes and properties in the world editor easily, its terrain system is perfect for huge worlds (consists of streamed areas), offers navmesh pathfinding, very nice shadows and effects in deferred rendering mode which is fast in DX10+ mode, nice lod with billboards, and fast gpu bone animations, for 5 usd you can have access to make custom shaders, and also you can buy some source codes and game sources (a good quality fps source is free). but it lacks static and dynamic batching/instancing which is cool in unity. you need to put always a terrain in your level, as objects are handled as part of an area, but e.g. somebody is working on a spherical chunked terrain system in Esenthel, so for good programmers it is a nice choice.

I'm also trying UDK, but had little progress in it. I do not care its editor too much, rather its scripting, which simiarly to Neoaxis has a lot of stuff you don't really know what for, and unrealscript is said to be abandoned in next engine release I mean UE4.

I must deeply make a point... if you just want to play around, make small hobby projects and you are a long year user of gs - it does not make a sense to switch to the pro version of unity. It even does not make sense to come closer to the free version. It is right - the main crack is to understand a complete new thinking about developing an app. Unity is like working out a virtual set for a movie. Scene by scene. And yes - if you plan the change there will be a lot of work.

And it is not true, what some freaks here told in the past like
"It was for me no problem to switch" or crap like
"I only need two weeks".

In GS you have one single problem... to work with gs you must understand the
main key - you have to learn scripting. If you don´t learn scripting - you just can
play around with some old editors like med / wed.

When you understood gs and you reached the level "I completed a com game"
(of course - since I am a member of gs, I know, this level was reached only by the minority) you will have 3 problems with unity.

1.
You must understand a complete new developing process ( you must think like creating scenes for a movie - your work on a stage.

2.
You must understand the editor - because you work with the editor (in gs you primary work with the sed!) - and you have a very powerful tool with the unity editor to get some of the biggest needs - time. This includes the cooperation with the script editor.

3.
and you have to handle with a more difficult scripting language.

But If you are willed to do this... it is like changing from
"magix video maker" to "adobe premiere"
"med" to "cinema 4d or max"
"video fx" to "adobe after effects"

The overkill is just to work the new tool out. And for me it was a good step.
But for just play around or get some small jobs - it is not worth.
For me as a lone wolf ( paint / modle / scripting / music) it is the big food the rest of my creative life - or till the next ground breaking engine comes.

O.k. maybe you will have problems to handle the new "all with love" system.
For me as a hardcore black coffee drinker it is not possible to handle with.

btw... if that comes out >> GUI SYSTEM
hm... think about it.

That's the bad side... yes... then again I can just klick on SSAO in the editor, set some parameters and watch it realtime. I can check the impact on the framerate and display the triangulation. I can create path meshes and all that stuff whiel directly looking at the result. I place a camera path and tweak camera movement speed, direction and angle in realtime.

But still I have the fun part - scripting, and it's OOP. C# is quite user friendly and although I have done very little with it yet, it feels good.

There stays the fact, you have a weird codebase which is difficult to understand in parts. And a cumbersome documentation. *deep sigh*

1.
You must understand a complete new developing process ( you must think like creating scenes for a movie - your work on a stage.

2.
You must understand the editor - because you work with the editor (in gs you primary work with the sed!) - and you have a very powerful tool with the unity editor to get some of the biggest needs - time. This includes the cooperation with the script editor.

3.
and you have to handle with a more difficult scripting language.



Seems to come from some Fan ? Well just take the thrid person tutorial, download the level and assets and FOLLOW the tutorial before talking about "Virtual cinema" or whatever

Scripting is Javascript, where it is hard ? All the time is calling Unity 3D functions.
Integrating the script, i don't see the problem.
The code script is like 3DGS actions, but put in Events (init , update ...)

C# is incredibly easy , more natural than Lite C (no initialisations needed, no strange variables etc ...)
And you have just to search for C# package tutorial on their site.

All amazing plugins just proove : LOT OF PEOPLE ACHIEVE TO MAKE PLUGINS (and complicated ones also !)
So yes, full customization for tools.
If you have a team, one member could make tools for your game and entire team ... perhaps easily !


The editor is incredibly easy to put your scene, import new assets, adjust physics, choose shaders ... or you have some problem, OR ALL 3D ARTISTS USING UNITY ARE INCREDIBLY SKILLED FOR EDITORS USE ???

For terrain editor, vegetation, forget the next years ... 3DGS next is new WED and mobile.

Yes this is specific stuff, a learning curve like any engine.
But for lot of trivial things you have visual Helpers like particles panel for behaviour and creation (so easy to make them), character capsule editor etc ...

Or perhaps all 3D artists and specially those that are not 3D game makers are laying saying that it allows them to make what they want ?

If 3DGS is top for you, and you are more than happy, in that case i understand, and can just say : continue and push it to the limits !

in the other case if you don't plan to put one, two months learning another engine , you'll never learn it ... and continue with a closed mind against other 3D engines ...
(Just sorry for you to perhaps pass away from other good 3D engines ??)

I don't prone Unity , i use another indie 3D engine i prefer for many reasons, but after having learning it, using it ... really don't talk about difficulty to customize it or make any special game !
And don't talk about "just push a button and bad sliders", all helpers just avoid you to LOOSE TIME on TRIVIAL STANDARD STUFF !
Capsule visual adjust panel, particle panels etc... you adjust and view in real time instead of coding (tries/error system) , and you can just gain lot of time you can put on lot more specific stuff for your game !

Perhaps you need to program all by yourself like lot of hard core coders ? in that case i understand, fast creation on standard stuff (shaders, terrain, physics ...) and visual tweaking is not your taste !

-----------------------


For Neo Axis , that's really sad that the author don't put much hard work on the docs, the engine have great features and a cool workflow.

Yes, of course - I am a fan of the fantastic unity workflow .
So ratchet, these are my words with the pov of a independent game developer.
As I wrote above... I am developing apps from scratch up to final commercial state.
But maybe I am silly and need longer as everybody else. Maybe I am very slow so I am finally interested in your work. So could you show me some of your published games. Some distributors of yours? Sorry, I am only sporadic in this forum and really want to know the results of yours.

For me it's a passion and hobby, to make 3D stuff and run it with some templates ... no game for now !

Unteal now it has just been cooperation on little 3D teams to make 3D models for them , even i made for lonewolves who never reached to finish a game also.
I have just prototypes mini games, or some features/editors without finishing them for various reasons (3D engine, programming , lacking feature etc ... )
So yes no game, it i selled and finished one , perhaps i would have been on AUM ?

--------------

But don't be so flammed, my intention was nut to hurt your feelings , juts to point out other 3D Tools / engines are not that bad , some mor ecomplicated, some have better features etc ...
And visual Helpers sorry but all 3D artists like them a lot , the more they have to adjust advanced things, the more they go fast and concentrate on other stuff

-----------

I have some RPG idea for PC with 3DGS, like you can see on Projects thread, i've put lot lot of hours and tries, even coding some 3D Tile editor ... TOO TOO MUCH programming, and even more programming for the editor caus i would have to make a complete one as all stuff is placed by reading a file

So this project is stand by or abandonned, until i find a better solution without all amount of coding ...
3DGS with terrain support tools could have been some solution ...
I think i'll do like in the beginning, make the level on bLender, import it in WED than place all stuff ...
3D level creation in MODO

-------------

I've been looking at Ogre 3D and Venetica, TorchLight games, they are amazing using a FREE engine.
But too much C++ for me.

Expect to see some progress on my RPG game with 3DGS i planed (i'll won't use a custom 3D custom level editor .. TOO MCUH WORK AND PROGRAMMING for me) !

One again, my words for other 3D engines and their visual helpers, sliders , additionnal visual tools is to point out that 3D artists like that , to go fast ... SO YES, I LOVE VISUAL HELPERS than programming !
(do you think for a new comer to find a terrain editor, particle editor, HUD editor, etc ...won't help him a lot to go fast if he don't like or don't know a lot of programming and his goal is make a game with standard stuff before ??)