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Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: sivan] #427419
08/07/13 21:02
08/07/13 21:02
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WretchedSid Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: sivan
a few little things, here is the corresponding page: http://www.esenthel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Code_Editor

No, sorry, that won't happen any time soon (if at all). The problem is that we don't have control over the compiler, in fact, it's not even one compiler. Windows uses MSVC, Mac and iOS use LLVM/Clang and Linux and Android use GCC, so adding this into the compiler won't happen from our side. The other solution for this would be a custom pre-processor, which would force the user to run their script through it before handing it over to their compiler. This can be done by having the user explicitly call the pre-processor, or we do this on their behalf from within a custom editor, and we will certainly not provide a custom code editor. Nothing that we could come up with can compete to Visual Studio or Xcode, and forcing the user to use an inferior editor instead of a preferred one just for the sake of a few macros... Hell no. And we don't want to force the user to run their code through an intermediate program, we want them to be able to hit build and run in their IDE and get going.

Rayne is all about not standing in the way of the user, and implementing new language features would mean that we do have to get in their way, and that is not worth the marginal gain of comfort.

So yeah, long rant, but I hope that clarifies why we won't be able to provide such a solution.


Edit: Btw, a few points:
"Basic data types": We provide data types with fixed length that work across platforms and architectures (x86, x86_64, ARM)
"Specifying Default Values for Class Members": That's a C++11 feature
"16-bit (Unicode) Characters and Strings": Rayne has something better: A string class that is input agnostic. It can work with ASCII strings, utf8, utf16 and utf32 (eg. because you want to use UTF16 for asian strings because in UTF8 most asian characters are a 3 byte sequence), and you can work with them interchangeably (the string class takes care of transforming its internal storage if needed). It also gives you a ton of connivence methods to work with the encapsulated data.
"Accessing Base Class": There is no __super in C++... That doesn't work because of multiple inheritance, and even if it did, you should know what you inherit from.


Originally Posted By: lemming
Btw, how are your levels build up? Like Acknex an own level compiler or do you just add models to compose it?

Well, we do have a level editor, which generates a custom format, but there is no compilation step. Modern hardware can deal with dynamic scenes, there is no need to have offline compilation of levels, unless you explicitly want to piss of the user. I mean, sure, there are still cases where a compiled level makes sense, eg. to precompute light maps, but there are tools for that.

Now, I know you asked how levels are build up, but as a good marketing PR SEO master shenanigans talker, I would like to talk about Rampart Scenes for a bit: Rayne doesn't force you to use a scene manager. I mean, it does, but it doesn't force you to a specific one. Your game might be a minecraft clone with lots of equally sized blocks, an ABT(ree) can go fuck itself in such a case, what you really want is a spatial hash in such a case. Likewise, there are levels where an octree kicks ass, and levels where you may want to use an AABB tree. Bottom line, there is no silver bullet, and forcing the user to something doesn't do any good here. So Rayne lets you choose what you want, and it allows you to create a custom scene manager. A scene manager is really just an extension to the scene itself (encapsulated in a World object), while the world does the heavy lifting when it comes to scene node management, it also acts like an event tap for various kinds of attachments to it, for example the scene manager. It's plug and play, and the documentation tells you what scene manager you should use in what scenario.

And besides of that, just throw your scene nodes into the world, or place them in the editor. The entities are asset agnostic, meaning you can plug your own resource loader into the engine, tell it how it can identify your files (or provide your own predicate), and then just create an entity and point it to the file.
The custom model format was really just for the beginning so that we had something to get going that was easy to parse and load, model files are a huge bitch. But there are going to be more supported formats.

Last edited by JustSid; 08/07/13 21:27.

Shitlord by trade and passion. Graphics programmer at Laminar Research.
I write blog posts at feresignum.com
Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: WretchedSid] #427466
08/08/13 11:04
08/08/13 11:04
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Germany, BW, Stuttgart
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Quote:
Nothing that we could come up with can compete to Visual Studio or Xcode, and forcing the user to use an inferior editor instead of a preferred one just for the sake of a few macros... Hell no.

That's the spirit! Would be awesome if other engines would have the same attitude.

I'm really looking forward for your first release!


Visit my site: www.masterq32.de
Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: MasterQ32] #427469
08/08/13 12:32
08/08/13 12:32
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Budapest
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thanks for the detailed answer. in future I also prefer VS and C++, no engine specific languages, but I have to learn a lot... fortunately I have a little time until you release Rayne laugh
I'm experiencing with the older version of the above mentioned engine in VS, its new version is more heavily built on its own scripting environmant that resulted in a lot of issues... so I can agree with your decision. imo it's mainly a question of targeted users.


Free world editor for 3D Gamestudio: MapBuilder Editor
Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: sivan] #427493
08/08/13 15:47
08/08/13 15:47
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İstanbul, Turkey
Quad Offline
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I already always loved you grin

no need for grammar when expressing love

Last edited by Quad; 08/08/13 15:47.

3333333333
Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: sivan] #427496
08/08/13 16:15
08/08/13 16:15
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WretchedSid Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: sivan
imo it's mainly a question of targeted users.

Oh, most definitely! And I didn't mean to come of as arrogant or smug towards Esenthel!
C++ can certainly be made more comfortable and easy, and we have a lot of small helper tools, classes and systems in place to make it as easy as possible. But we don't think that changing the language itself is the way to go, because we don't think that C++ is broken to begin with.

Originally Posted By: Quad
I already always loved you grin

The feelings are mutual! <3 grin


Shitlord by trade and passion. Graphics programmer at Laminar Research.
I write blog posts at feresignum.com
Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: WretchedSid] #427779
08/13/13 16:02
08/13/13 16:02
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Canada
WretchedSid Offline OP
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As you know, we are working on an awesome entry for the Oculus Rift VR Jam, and today we are proud to announce the first gameplay... Okay, it's not gameplay, we got sidetracked when we implemented the killing things part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzcuiXskthU

Obviously powered by Rayne!


Shitlord by trade and passion. Graphics programmer at Laminar Research.
I write blog posts at feresignum.com
Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: WretchedSid] #427810
08/14/13 02:23
08/14/13 02:23
Joined: Mar 2003
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Wellington
Nems Offline

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Absolutely impressive, and of course, hungry for more...

Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: Nems] #428366
08/26/13 04:23
08/26/13 04:23
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Posts: 3,751
Canada
WretchedSid Offline OP
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Guess what, we can actually finish a project... Not Rayne (yet), but Occluded, our VR jam entry.
Here is the trailer of Occluded: Goty Edition (with day 1 patch and DLC): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r4YsrBwF9k

And here are some screens, because yay, screens:






And if you have a Mac, you can download a playable version right here: http://rayne3d.com/static/occluded.zip

A Windows version will follow soonish, as well as a more polished version and the source code of the game (though, that's going to take a bit). In the meantime: Rayne is rocking on and on.


Shitlord by trade and passion. Graphics programmer at Laminar Research.
I write blog posts at feresignum.com
Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: WretchedSid] #428563
08/29/13 18:01
08/29/13 18:01
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WretchedSid Offline OP
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A few days late, but here is out Post Mortem to Occluded: http://rayne3d.com/blog/08-29-2013-occluded-post-mortem


Shitlord by trade and passion. Graphics programmer at Laminar Research.
I write blog posts at feresignum.com
Re: The answer to life, the universe and unity3d [Re: WretchedSid] #428568
08/29/13 19:57
08/29/13 19:57
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,993
Karlsruhe
PadMalcom Offline
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Nice read! laugh

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