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Game-Edit [Re: Loopix] #52323
11/20/05 16:28
11/20/05 16:28
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,753
Munich, Bavaria, South of Germ...
TripleX Offline OP
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@Michael wow very constructive post Altough it isn't very probably that I'll change the whole design again (we wont implement the WED design, because of some important reasons), please say what you don't like.. (btw the most important thing behind this GUI-Screen is not the whole looking, but the structure (who you can access important features).

@Loopix: Yes maybe we'll use another color sheme.. This could be easily changed. Maybe only simple black / white?

thanks
Triple-X

Re: Game-Edit [Re: TripleX] #52324
11/20/05 17:39
11/20/05 17:39
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
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HeelX Offline
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@TripleX

Post in german for better understanding:

Je nach Texturauflösung und -skalierung hat man ja öfters bei Schatten diesen Treppeneffekt auf den Texturen. Wie wäre es, wenn man eine Art Light-Subdivision Modifizierer hinzufügt? Das heißt: eine Lichtquelle wir einer Spähre ähnlich durch, sagen wir, 8 Lichter ersetzt, die dann die gleiche Farbe haben aber jeweils nur 1/8 der Lichtintensität des Ursprungslichtes und der Abstand zum Ursprung ist natürlich auch größer. Dadurch wird das Punktlicht zu einer Art Volumenlicht und so entsteht quasi ein Antialiasing für Schatten. Zwar muss dann der Compiler je nach Duplizierung 4 bis 8 mal solange rechnen, aber das Ergebnis lohnt sich! Testet es mal selbst aus... es funktioniert. Dann könnte der User quasi alle Lichter, oder ein Licht, selektieren und dann über einen Subdivision-Button das Licht aufsplitten.

MfG - HeelX

Last edited by HeelX; 11/20/05 17:40.
Re: Game-Edit [Re: HeelX] #52325
11/20/05 17:44
11/20/05 17:44
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TripleX Offline OP
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@HeelX: Das Problem dahinter ist, dass ich dies zwar durchaus anbieten könnte, nur dummerweise würde man dies nicht in Echtzeit, bzw. erst nach neubuilden und neuladen, sehen. Ich werde allerdings darüber nachdenken. Kannst vll. mal Bilder aus WED mit dem 8 Lichtern zeigen?

Meinst du also in etwa so:
Code:


(X = Licht, A = Sublichter)Dies ist die normale Variante)
\ | /
X
/ | \

(andere variante -Ansicht von der Seite)
A A
A <- Mittelpunkt
A A

und von oben genauso:

A A
A <- Mittelpunkt
A A

Also Plantenbahnmäßig ( Sonne = Mittelpunkt, Rest = Planten auf Kreisbahn ;) ) angeordnet?

//alle um 1/8 schwächer und ca. Lichtradius / 8 von dem ursprung entfernt



Dies würde doch zu problemen führen mit der Lichtintensität, da die lichter nicht mehr gleichlang scheinen würden oder?

English:

A new WIP shot:


Triple-X

Re: Game-Edit [Re: TripleX] #52326
11/20/05 19:14
11/20/05 19:14
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HeelX Offline
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Natürlich kann ich mal nen Screenshot machen:


Zwar habe ich das Bild verkleinert, man sieht aber alles Notwendige: oben ist die 1-Licht Variante, die Settings habe ich auch abgebildet und das Lightmap Resultat in der Engine.

Unten habe ich dann Orbital Lichter hinzugefügt und die Lichtintensität auf 1/8 des Originalwertes gesetzt (eigentlich müsste es 1/7, aber egal). Der Abstand der Lichter vom Ursprungslicht sollte variabel sein, bei mir sind es 16 Quants. Je weiter man den Radius verändert, desto klarere Schattenbilder hat man von den Orbitallichtern, also, das ist ja nicht beabsichtigt.

Natürlich hätte man nicht die Möglichkeit, die Lightmaps ingame zu sehen, weil die Lightmaps ja berechnet werden müssen. Aber theoretisch müsste der User ja sowieso die Entities updaten, also auch den Compiler benutzten, um deine Änderungen durchzuführen. Aber ich sehe schon, der Vergleich hinkt ein wenig, wenn man die Unterschiede bei der Kompilierungszeit beachtet

Du könntest das Feature ja als Post-Production Effect einführen Wenn man so denkt, würden mir noch mehr Dinge einfallen.. aber das lass ich jetzt mal lieber.

Ciao!
Christian

Last edited by HeelX; 11/20/05 19:15.
Re: Game-Edit [Re: HeelX] #52327
11/20/05 21:53
11/20/05 21:53
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,753
Munich, Bavaria, South of Germ...
TripleX Offline OP
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Naja solche Effekte hatte ich schon geplant (z.B. ein Script, dass die Map selber n bisal optimiert; also z.B. die Positionen falls notwendig rundet usw. usw.), daher bin ich auch nicht abgeneigt.. Also falls dir mir solcher Features einfallen immer her damit (am nützlichsten sind die features die sich auf die ganze Map beziehen).

Bei dem effekt oben muss ich mir noch überlegen, wie ich das designtechnisch einbauen kann, da man das ja wohl kaum für jedes bild im Level haben will Vll. einfach per auswahl des Lichtnames.. Naja mal sehen.
Danke für das Bild (das Licht in der Mitte ist gleich stark geblieben oder?)

mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Timo

Re: Game-Edit [Re: TripleX] #52328
11/21/05 01:48
11/21/05 01:48
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,655
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testDummy Offline
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Congratulations, your GUI department has just de-invented the "menu".
If the object is to make money, and when has the object not been to make money, tell your GUI department to clean-up its act or it will be replaced, and remove the images of the GUI immediately, before they hurt sales.
GUI blunders:
A. The GUI is not supposed to be showy.
It should be non-intrusive, and should not obstruct the view of the work area (the level).
The GUI department is trying to be overly artistic or stylish, and in doing so,
it is throwing the GUI into the user's face,
making the GUI the primary focus,
obstructing the user's vision, limiting visibility and hindering the functionality of the tool.
B. White text on light pink background? = Random drug tests for everyone in the GUI department.
C. Icons should be small, simple in form, descriptive, memorable and easily recognizable.
Duplicate circle icons that don't effectively represent the actions associated with them? Unacceptable.
I am not a GUI expert, (if you're trying to make money, maybe you should get some feedback from an expert) but I do know what common sense is telling me.

Re: Game-Edit [Re: testDummy] #52329
11/21/05 05:27
11/21/05 05:27
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 368
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creature Offline
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Posts: 368
A. A GUI can be as stylish and smooth as you like it as long as it retains functionality. There GUI can be moved around the screen if I can see right, making it as non-intrusive as possible so I wouldnt call it obstructive to a defree.

B. The colour does need to be changed,

C. Circles to need to be changed

Overall there GUI is NOT bad, in fact i consider it very stylish and yet effective, yes it has its draw backs but nothing meriting the type of post you just gave above. So stop being so unapologetically negative for the sake of being negative and offer them critisism in a positive way, you effectively attacked the GUI's weak points while not commenting on what you liked.

Re: Game-Edit [Re: creature] #52330
11/21/05 12:21
11/21/05 12:21
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,753
Munich, Bavaria, South of Germ...
TripleX Offline OP
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Generally its a bit sad that such posts come after around 4000 lines of code, but okay..

A) Hmm not pretty sure what you mean.. You can close all windows, and only open the windows you need. I only wanted to show whats possible. Generally it is possible that you can only show the half crycle.. nothing more (this is the first view). Of course everything would be much more clear if the buttons would be different graphics. That will be made.
The stylish point is good point..
B) This will be changed yes.
C) We always use the same icon atm and will make different icons atm.

Generally we, of course, take your cirizism serious and because of that we'll change some things:
1) change the whole color sheme (maybe silver?)
2) make the menue much less stylish (angularly, more text, less buttons).
3) resize the buttons (smaller)

thanks for the very constructive ciricism
Triple-X

Re: Game-Edit [Re: TripleX] #52331
11/21/05 12:26
11/21/05 12:26
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,753
Munich, Bavaria, South of Germ...
TripleX Offline OP
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A statement of SFMAT4

At first: The GUI isn't finished. There are no final buttons, colors or sizes of the main eleements. I only show the screens here to get more feedback which is quite negative. Maybe there will be a "standard" menue version.

The problem is, that the tool will be very voluminous. With a convetional method (windows) we would have more than 3-4 menue layers, which would be really unclear.

Standards as MAX or WED could be used also, because the menue bar is ABOVE the engine, which would permanently reduce the whole visible engine-section, and would cause a big unclearliness.
A test will show who the new interface works. I think that we go the right way.
All who are sceptical here please contact me in order to discuss.

best wishes
SFMAT4 / Martin Teichman

Re: Game-Edit [Re: TripleX] #52332
11/22/05 01:13
11/22/05 01:13
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,692
California, USA
bupaje Offline
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California, USA
I think the GUI is interesting and innovative. I do think it should perhaps be collapsible to a smaller circle or at least have a short cut key to toggle 'Hide/Show menues' so you can quickly toggle them invisible if needed. If not already considered then shortcut keys are cool as well.

Martin (MB) had this project in Showcase last year. http://www.superfluxus.de/tm_00.jpg The circle in the bottom left pops open and closed the menu.

A small thing I might consider would be either change the small submenu from a circle to a bar or make sure you have animated button states on hover over the X and icons. Otherwise I think people working quickly may frequently click the X instead of the icon as it is 'near' all icons.

Other than that when you have different icons, matching colors for main menu and its submenu and perhaps a title for stuff on the big wheel 'Material Tools' etc it will help people get use to the interface. For me it works. Reminds me a little of Eovia's stuff and even an artist pallete.


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