Gamestudio Links
Zorro Links
Newest Posts
What are you working on?
by txesmi. 09/14/19 15:44
file_write var array ?
by jcl. 09/14/19 08:31
Shift on MA
by Fred7. 09/14/19 07:37
Smaller Zorro GUI for Windows XP
by Petra. 09/13/19 17:31
Options t8 format question
by jcl. 09/13/19 12:15
import pandas from python for deep learning
by anonymous69. 09/12/19 14:40
script mt5
by anonymous69. 09/12/19 12:11
AUM Magazine
Latest Screens
The Space Between
Pogostuck: Rage With Your Friends
Worst Case Z
AckCon'18 - Lotter vs the World 2 - Preview Release
Who's Online Now
5 registered members (3run, Dalla, bondo1, 2 invisible), 616 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
web20tpo, tarekhazem, Juanjo, Fred7, saulius
18288 Registered Users
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rating: 5
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Something EVERY MP programmer should read #53447
08/27/05 17:38
08/27/05 17:38
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline OP
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: fastlane69] #53448
08/28/05 10:32
08/28/05 10:32
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,301
Damocles Offline
Expert
Damocles  Offline
Expert

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,301
very interresting indeed, thanks

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Damocles] #53449
01/04/06 02:06
01/04/06 02:06
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,256
Oz
L
Locoweed Offline
Expert
Locoweed  Offline
Expert
L

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,256
Oz
Nice.


Professional A8.30
Spoils of War - East Coast Games
Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Locoweed] #53450
09/04/06 04:46
09/04/06 04:46
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 130
K
khanoftruth Offline
Member
khanoftruth  Offline
Member
K

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 130
Very helpful. Thanks.


The Galvanic Productions Hompage: www.GalvanicProductions.tk For our current project, click on the Nirvana link.
Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: khanoftruth] #53451
10/07/07 12:41
10/07/07 12:41
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 158
Guangzhou China
bomber Offline
Member
bomber  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 158
Guangzhou China
nice


"I don't know what the facts are but somebody's certainly going to sit down with him and find out what he knows that they may not know, and make sure he knows what they know that he may not know."
————Donald Rumfeld
Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: bomber] #53452
10/27/07 14:19
10/27/07 14:19
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,854
F
Firoball Offline
Senior Expert
Firoball  Offline
Senior Expert
F

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,854
http://www.vis.uni-stuttgart.de/ger/teaching/lecture/ws04/seminar_spiele/network/

The initial page is in German, but on bottom there are links to some interesting english docs about Multiplayer development.

Unfortunately not all links are working anymore, but the ones still working offer useful stuff.

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Firoball] #53453
10/29/07 16:42
10/29/07 16:42
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline OP
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
I sure wish that first document was in english... seems to be a nice review piece on MP. The followup links however are very good!

Maybe we should have, instead of this thread, a moderated "starving artists" like thread on all things MP and MMP? We could organize it on top and thus everyone new and old to MP would have immediate access to all manner of sources. I feel it should be moderated (or better yet peer reviewed) to cut down on redundancy and so that only the best of the best articles show up.

What do you think, oh MP gods and servants?

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: fastlane69] #53454
10/29/07 16:48
10/29/07 16:48
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,854
F
Firoball Offline
Senior Expert
Firoball  Offline
Senior Expert
F

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,854
The German text does not say relly much - at least nothing that you don't know already The few pictures contain much more information than the few sentences.

About your thread idea: I'll leave that open to the more experienced users. I'm doing my first steps and currently I'm even happy to have some client-server correction code which is working smoothly

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Firoball] #53455
11/01/07 13:28
11/01/07 13:28
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 28
LB, CA, USA
WINBERRY Offline
Newbie
WINBERRY  Offline
Newbie

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 28
LB, CA, USA
Am I correct in understanding that the MULTIPLAYER componet with A7 does NOT work?

I have tried the multiplayer tutorial and get a DPNERR which I guess has something to do with DirectX 8 and is no longer available.

I tried the links to the above site and most are no longer available.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated

Thanks

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: WINBERRY] #53456
11/01/07 20:06
11/01/07 20:06
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline OP
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
I'm not aware of it not working at all. Buggy? Perhaps, still need to run tests for myself, but this is not the thread to post questions on; Start a new thread and then we can all get on the bandwagon.

But in short, it should work and not return that error but I haven't tested it so I can't say for sure.

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: fastlane69] #53457
11/04/07 21:38
11/04/07 21:38
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,854
F
Firoball Offline
Senior Expert
Firoball  Offline
Senior Expert
F

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,854
http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/nossdav06/pdf/palant.pdf

Just stumbled upon it - it's about Dead Reckoning.
Still need to work through it completely...

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Firoball] #274371
06/26/09 16:52
06/26/09 16:52
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
Damocles_ Offline
Expert
Damocles_  Offline
Expert

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
Some Details about Networking and the Client-Server communication
in Unreal.

Especially interesting: the Client prediction,
wich enables the Client to feel Lag-free in term of
immediate inputs such as movement:

http://unreal.epicgames.com/Network.htm

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Damocles_] #282913
08/04/09 15:59
08/04/09 15:59
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 445
Peine, Germany
Razoron Offline
Senior Member
Razoron  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 445
Peine, Germany
most of the links don't work.

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Razoron] #284063
08/11/09 14:04
08/11/09 14:04
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
Damocles_ Offline
Expert
Damocles_  Offline
Expert

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
all the links still work.
better check your browser settings...

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Damocles_] #336788
08/06/10 10:03
08/06/10 10:03
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
Damocles_ Offline
Expert
Damocles_  Offline
Expert

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
Here an older article about a different Multiplayer concept:

Syncronous simulation

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3094/1500_archers_on_a_288_network_.php

This is a great choice for games that meet the following criteria:

-small amount of command senders / Players, (only have like 2 to 8 players)
-large amount of units (RTS as typical example, also other large simulations like in RPG games with many AI Players.
-instant reaction not as important (command to action delay)

The Syncronous simulation offers the advantage that the
network load is tiny, as only commands are send.
Each gameclient calculates the full game locally, based on
the commands.

Starcraft / Starcraft 2 also uses this approach.

(In case you wonder why replays cant simply jump
forward to any position. It requires to calculate
the whole gameflow constantly)

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Damocles_] #336797
08/06/10 12:16
08/06/10 12:16
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 913
Berlin, Germany
S
SchokoKeks Offline
User
SchokoKeks  Offline
User
S

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 913
Berlin, Germany
Great read, I've seen that article before and I've always wanted to implement this to 3DGS. However, you may not use c_move (especially with glide) as it seems to be quite random when obstacles appears from what I've discovered in my multiplayer tests.

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: SchokoKeks] #336800
08/06/10 12:27
08/06/10 12:27
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
Damocles_ Offline
Expert
Damocles_  Offline
Expert

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
The thing is, that most thing gamestudio users use cant be
used.

No c_move, no physics, no events no "wait(1)" in all core functions.
Not even the way you use entities normally.
(or making shure they always result in exactly exactly the same result)

The core game-play needs to run in
a seperate routine with fixed time command cycles.
There should be only a single "wait(1)" in the core loop, to
avoid any desync. (actually not a wait(1), but a waitfunction
that waits for the next command cycle to be processed)
Random numbers must be assured to be taken in exact order.
using seeding or even a manually controlled random generator.

Other things like the visualization, graphical effect etc
can run seperately, as long as they dont affect the core gameplay (only receive data from it)

Anything that runs differently on different machines
would result in a desyncronized simulation, and thus
make such a system impossible.
So framerate dependant calculations should only affect
the visualization part.

--

Its also not a typical client-server approach.
There is no server wich calculated the gameplay, but
its rather just a simple command-packed proxy,
to make shure everyone has all info at the correct time.

The full game itself is run on each client seperately.

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Damocles_] #336950
08/07/10 05:13
08/07/10 05:13
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline OP
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
It's a peer-to-peer network model enacted on a C/S platform with the server relegated to the role of an intelligent router and each client becoming an independent peer.

Does that about sum it up? grin

BTW, the article is from 2001; how do we know that SC2 uses it? Wouldn't surprise me considering that my description above is "kinda" how battle.net works.


Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: fastlane69] #337056
08/07/10 22:09
08/07/10 22:09
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
Damocles_ Offline
Expert
Damocles_  Offline
Expert

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
Its less about how clients exchange data.
Such a modes can run peer to peer or server controlled.

Its more about how the game-world is calculated.

In a classic client-server game, the server does all the
logic, calculations and oversees validity.
In the "syncronous simulation", each client is calcualting
the world logic, only based on usercommands from
all clients.
The server (such as battle net) would just handle
the connections and transfer of the commands.

I know its how Starcraft 1 worked (looking at the networking
commands). So I assume SC2 is very similar to that.

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Damocles_] #337252
08/09/10 19:01
08/09/10 19:01
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline OP
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
"Its less about how clients exchange data.
[...]
In the "syncronous simulation", each client is calcualting
the world logic, only based on usercommands from
all clients.
The server (such as battle net) would just handle
the connections and transfer of the commands.
"

That's what I'm saying and I'll show you how:

As you say, P2P is more than just the network; it's also what the apps do with this net traffic.

Consider a 3-tier architecture: presentation, logic, and database. In a C/s environment, the client is solely responsible for presentation, that is presenting the information to the user. The server is solely responsible for the logic and the database, that is a the rules and the charge that dominate the game. In a P2P environment, every peer must have some or all of these components present. Presentation is obvious since every peer is connected to every user, logic is necessary since every peer needs to know how to calculate its own game state and perhaps those of others, and database is important sense each peer it needs to know its own statistics for the world.

So we are both saying the same thing, that even though this is a C/S platform and the packets don't flow like in a P2P, it is in fact being enacted as a P2P architecture in that each client has complete autonomy from the server and the server, as I and you stated, is merely relegated to the role of a fancy router.

As for SC2, I wouldn't assume. I don't know any better but 9 yrs is an eternity in networking. I would imagine Blizzard has been constantly updating their net model in other releases and thus it could bear little similarity to SC. Having said that, if it ain't broke, don't fix it... if it worked in 2001 and works today, then it is truly worthy of attention.

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: fastlane69] #337258
08/09/10 19:29
08/09/10 19:29
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
Damocles_ Offline
Expert
Damocles_  Offline
Expert

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,154
ok, then I think we share the same idea here.

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Damocles_] #399445
04/15/12 13:39
04/15/12 13:39
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,301
Damocles Offline
Expert
Damocles  Offline
Expert

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,301
General advice:



Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: Damocles] #399457
04/15/12 16:44
04/15/12 16:44
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,118
Caucasus
3run Online
Senior Expert
Happy Birthday 3run  Online
Senior Expert

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,118
Caucasus
Link to:
Quote:
Networking and the Client-Server communication
in Unreal.
Doesn't work.. I'm really interested in it, but couldn't find it.


Looking for free stuff?? Take a look here: http://badcom.at.ua
Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: 3run] #399464
04/15/12 18:05
04/15/12 18:05
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 274
de
lemming Offline
Member
lemming  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 274
de
http://web.archive.org/web/20100728233924/http://unreal.epicgames.com/Network.htm

Internet never forgets!

Really interesting text.

Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: lemming] #399475
04/15/12 19:18
04/15/12 19:18
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,118
Caucasus
3run Online
Senior Expert
Happy Birthday 3run  Online
Senior Expert

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,118
Caucasus
GREAT! laugh Reading it now, thank you mate!!


Looking for free stuff?? Take a look here: http://badcom.at.ua
Re: Something EVERY MP programmer should read [Re: fastlane69] #473389
07/02/18 14:42
07/02/18 14:42
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1
S
sultan002 Offline
Guest
sultan002  Offline
Guest
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1
Very helpful. Thanks.

Last edited by sultan002; 07/02/18 14:45.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  old_bill 

Gamestudio download | chip programmers | Zorro platform | shop | Data Protection Policy

oP group Germany GmbH | Birkenstr. 25-27 | 63549 Ronneburg / Germany | info (at) opgroup.de

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1