Ok, the parallax seems to work with extra sp_light but will it also react to the sun light ? With point light via sp_light it is clear. Like a said i really like sphere and i was about to buy it for "Lived" but there where those problems.

Try not to implement shaders, or other technology into your game
just for the sake of it.

Shaders make games slow, if used too extensively,
and this destroys gameplay for the sake of having some nicer pics
to post for advertisement.

Dont let yourself got to tell, that shaders are a must.
Avoid them until the end of production, then look at your game, and
decide if an additional shader really improves your game, given
its fps costs.

No, the shader discussion of Alienpac Software was months ago we planned to implement shaders but not at all surfaces. So we already worked on some shader effects long before this post, it has nothing to with the things Matt said. We will optimize the graphics truth the development process.

Lived is looking nice. Keep us updated.

Shaders are overrated and you don't need them to make a game look up to date. Resident Evil 4 looks as good as anything out or coming out and it uses few. It's all about the art. There are all kinds of games coming out that use few if any shaders.

Give me the superior looking HL2 anyday over Doom III.

to be honest, as far as i like good graphics, id prefer solid gameplay, polished stlye and good music over them.
give it this goldeneye 64 feel, and especially make good music, and the game will go well, even if you decide not to use shaders, or at least not everywhere as you said...
belive me...

I think-

Half Life 2 was good because it had a good aesthetic,
well designed, buildings, vehicles, people,
all created a good atmospheric post appocolyptic Eastern European city.
It all had its own look.

Doom 3, sorry, it looked like Aliens interior, industrial space age interior to
me. Even Red Dwarf.

Matt, thanks for your detailed reply about Sphere. I would like to look into buying it, I need to see if I can turn things off such as the soft shadows etc.
That may help with the frame rate reduction? Can I try this in your demo?

To get back to the topic, nice screenshots again! It will be interesting to see if you get shaders in it too.

I think that "shader-hype" is over-evaluated.

I mean, why has everything to be done with shaders?
Ok it may look better, but on what costs?

With well made artwork you can get really good results even without shaders.

In other parts you just have to think a bit.
My metal reflection code for example is based on a UV move formula and some people said they hadn't imagined it was possible without a shader.
The water in Dragonrise was juged as a shader, too but there is no shader.

And when I have a look at Need For Speed - Most Wanted for example, then I have to say -> I do not like those grafics based on effects-only.

For me, a game still has to look like a game and not like a freaky drug simulation because everywhere is gloom and blur and reflecting concrete.

sebcreas screens look good, but I have to totally admit, that gameplay _must_ stand in front of grafics.
If that works you can continue with some grafics if necessary (and possible -> framerate).

Yes. Gameplay comes first, for sure. Doom3 was boring because of the repetitive gameplay. "Beyond Good and Evil" was way better because of a superb gameplay. But even this comic game did use shaders, motion blur, depth of field and much more.

There is no problem to offer a non shader game. But this is not the future. All actual game productions try to create more details. And you cannot reach a certain level of details without shaders. Modern games use models that look like a million polygons because they are created from a million polygons and details are baked into a normalmap (and because of that you cannot easily add quality normalmaps to characters later on, you have to model that right from the beginning). You will only betray yourself when you believe you can compete without this. Look at this and you will see what I mean:
http://www.projectoffset.com/



But there is a market for casual games, kids games, educational games, puzzle games and much more that do not need any shader at all. But in a first person shooter you will not get away without it. And this raises one big question: Isn't 3d Gamestudio an engine that claims to be made suitable for first person shooters? At the moment I think it is better suited to cartoon looking games. But even in this field more and more companies use modern technology.

And concerning the point that shaders are slow: I think this is nonesense in some cases. Modern graphic cards will render faster with a wise use of shaders. BSP levels in A6 are often much slower because they do not use any advantage of the graphic cards. They need heavy CPU work. With that in mind a well made shader game with models and octree could be faster than a BSP game without shaders. But that is only true for modern hardware.

With that in mind I appreciate the work of Matt_AufderHeide and I am really grateful that he shares his results with us. Thank you.

hello hello...
just again... could you please show us a video. I really want to see this in motion. Thank you very very much.