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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Scramasax]
#66438
03/14/06 22:06
03/14/06 22:06
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
mpdeveloper_B
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
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well you never know till you read, it's scientifically proven if you believe it or not.
- aka Manslayer101
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: NITRO777]
#66441
03/14/06 22:45
03/14/06 22:45
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 535
Michigan
ICEman
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Posts: 535
Michigan
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Science doesnt ignore anything...scientists do. @ nitro.. Just because millions believe in it doesnt make it fact. Millions of people once believed the world was 2 dimensional.. a belief later proven false. One day we will approach a point when we know enough to cofirm or disavow the existance of a God.. but that day is not today.. nor this millenium for that matter. All we have to go on is our limited science, faith and opinion... all of which are we so narrowly bound to, that is, most of us unwilling to be open to any new idea. If we are religious, than nothing the scientific world can say will open our minds to the possibility that God might be just a myth. If we are scientific, than the fact we cannot see or hear it is enough for us to conclude, however incompletely, that there is no God and nothing a christian, muslim, taoist, buddhist, anything-ist can say will open us to that possibility. Neither side seems to believe in the possibility that both schools of thought are in part right, but that we really dont know enough to draw the whole picture ourselves..(Tho this is what I believe). We dont have enough evidence or the ability to procure it, and we are far too made up in our opinions to find the truth in this era of humanity.. thereby rendering the debate over God.. moot to modern man. 
I'm ICEman, and I approved this message.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Scramasax]
#66442
03/14/06 23:23
03/14/06 23:23
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,236
San Diego, CA
Marco_Grubert
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Quote:
A manifest deity, deterministic or non, is impossible to prove scientifically. Its a waste of time to try.
Why so ? Just have a booming voice announce that he'll suspend some physical laws for a little while and we would have good reason to believe that there is a powerful entity out there. Even better, have him announce he'll instantly stop a tsunami, wildfire, hurricane and save lots of people- not only would there be scientific evidence, it would also help getting rid of the argument against god from natural evil.
You could not prove omnipotence but at least it would be a beginning compared to the lack of any evidence whatsoever.
Quote:
If we are scientific, than the fact we cannot see or hear it is enough for us to conclude, however incompletely, that there is no God and nothing a christian, muslim, taoist, buddhist, anything-ist can say will open us to that possibility.
That is under the assumption that these gods interfere in the natural world so demanding to see evidence of such claimed interference is certainly not too much to ask.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: mpdeveloper_B]
#66443
03/15/06 00:21
03/15/06 00:21
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
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Quote:
well you never know till you read, it's scientifically proven if you believe it or not.
Uhhmm ...
Quote:
About this title: When he faced death with terminal cancer. He made a miraculous recovery after Christians prayed for him, he began to re-evaluate his scientific position. Research reveals startling facts: The investigation are published her in their entirety.
So far for the 'scientifically proven' part in my opinion, it's just another person claiming or concluding he was saved by faith/prayers. It's pretty much irrelevant if I believe in this or not, but this form of evidence has very little credibility, no matter how important the person that says something, we can only trust their word or not trust it. In science you can repeat an experiment and come to a similar or maybe even exact same conclusions as one did before you in the same experiment, with near-death experiences, miracilously revived people and spirit sightings (the ones of which they claim no photograph can be taken off  ), just to name some, this can be somewhat of a problem .
If think we have the right to doubt, because there's no, or at least not enough evidence that there is something like a God. The fact that millions of people nevertheless believe in it, says more about those persons, than about wether or not God exists in my opinion. It's not a crime to believe, so it should not be a crime to not believe either, but honestly at this point in time I think the existance of a God is highly unlikely, both scientifically and pure logically. The latter, as in, why would he sent Christ who will suffer for us, instead of making us earn our place in heaven by our actions on earth? But also; why does the Bible exist with the socalled 'words of God', especially when there are a lot more texts written around that time (apocrif texts; 'the Dead Sea scrolls' and certain 'Prophecy of ...'-texts) that have quite similar content in a way, yet they are not part of 'the Bible', may I ask why?
And another point I often hear religious people claim is the importance of holding on to tradition. Well holding on to it most of the time doesn't exactly mean development, but more maintaining a stand still. It limits us to dare to think for ourselves in a way, maybe not always literally, but the line 'it's good to hold on to our traditions' get's quoted a lot by some religious persons in my vicinity.
Anyways wether the absense of evidence means the existance of God is unproven ór false, well we might never find that out. Lol, I say 'might' yet it must be 'will', if the it turns out to be 'unproven', but we don't end up at hell's gate or heaven's gate, then that proves there's no such thing as a hell or heaven, but uhhh, those it disproof the existance of God? 
I guess I'll stick to my 'if you can see it, then it's there, if you can't see it then it's either out of sight or it's not there'-theory, meaning God's existance is relative to my knowledge, and since I'm unaware of the existance of any proof good and solid enough to withstand my own critic, doubt & logic, hence I don't believe in God. Not necessarily right, yet most truth worthy in my opinion, I mean, it's a fact we don't really know, doesn't matter how you flip the cards.
Cheers
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Marco_Grubert]
#66444
03/15/06 00:41
03/15/06 00:41
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
Even better, have him announce he'll instantly stop a tsunami, wildfire, hurricane and save lots of people- not only would there be scientific evidence, it would also help getting rid of the argument against god from natural evil.
While He is at it maybe we could just sit around and He could bring food to us, open our mouths and put the food in, haul us to the bathroom, etc. etc. This type of God does everything for us is like a social servant. The biblical belief system (properly interpreted) holds man as the primary steward of the earth, meaning that we have control over our destiny.Dont believe me? Think about this:
Is it a coincidence that most of the real death toll disasters you listed above like for example the hurricane in Louisiana and the tsunami in India, ..is it a coincidence that these events occur in places of the worst sinful debauchery?
LA with its heathenish mardi gras
India with its million + false gods
How about the famines in Africa? Isnt Africa one of the greatest idolaters...heathenist blood drinkers?
Just food for thought, but I think that the presence and faith level of people stop or perpeetuate natural disaster. And I hypothesize that even a precursory study of global areas and the natral disaster/combined with the faith level towards the Christian God would back up my point.
I hope I explained that right without rushing too fast 
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: NITRO777]
#66445
03/15/06 00:45
03/15/06 00:45
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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@Iceman and Blattsalat You are comparing apples with oranges. Millions of people feel close to God through a personal connection or just an outright inner voice. This is much different than just an astronomical opinion. And the irony here is of course that it was SCIENCE that held the flat world viewpoint. Columbus was a devout Christian
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