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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: NITRO777]
#66476
03/15/06 18:53
03/15/06 18:53
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
So what's it like on planet LaLa? Maybe now everyone else will see that you are seriously disturbed.
Maybe they will.
Quote:
Do you think that God accepts the deaths of Christians
YES. Death is a homecoming for us and for God. I look forward to death.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: NITRO777]
#66478
03/15/06 19:02
03/15/06 19:02
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 535
Michigan
ICEman
Developer
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Posts: 535
Michigan
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@ Nitro.. Mmmm I think that death is a part of life... you have a beggning, a life and an end of life, after which you move onto the next part of your existance which is not physical in nature. I dont look forward to it, particularly.. but I dont fear it or wish it wouldnt come for me either  . Also.. I have seen those Volkswagon commercials.. they're pretty funny..but I wonder what was in the bong that their marketing team was smoking in the boardroom to come up with that.. I'm not particularly offended by it.. but it's really bad when not only do your own industries use it to target that market.. but another country makes fun of it (tho funny.. I wonder who theyre tryina appeal to by doing that).
I'm ICEman, and I approved this message.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: ICEman]
#66479
03/15/06 21:11
03/15/06 21:11
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 155
USA San Diego CA
Scramasax
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 155
USA San Diego CA
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@ Nitro
Stories are nice and all but don't prove anything. Ghost Hunters, Psychic Detective, and UFO files seem to keep their coffers full of good stories. We're very imaginative creatures. What we don't know, we make up. People can't stand the vacuum of the unknowing.
Christians often want to prove God or elements of the Bible are true. This contradicts the edict of Faith. Only my favorite saint, "Doubting" Thomas, got to stick his finger in Jesus's crucifixion wounds. The rest of you Christians are just going to have to suck it up and believe, no matter how silly it gets.
Last edited by Scramasax; 03/15/06 21:12.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Matt_Aufderheide]
#66481
03/15/06 21:21
03/15/06 21:21
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,236
San Diego, CA
Marco_Grubert
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Posts: 3,236
San Diego, CA
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@Manslayer101: You posted a link to a book. In your opinion what do you think is the strongest point he is making for god ? @Nitro: Quote:
If you read the original reply to Marco you will understand that marco speculated that God should really show goodness by stopping all the needless destruction, to which I replied that if God did so, He would be more of a social servant.
Well my original claim was that God should do something tangible that can not be readily explained by science. This would give us proof of a powerful entity. If this entity's actions were also good then we had proof for a benevolent, powerful entity.
It all comes back to the old omnimax refutation of god. If god was powerful and had knowledge of the suffering caused by natural evil (assuming he did not cause it), as a benevolent being he should intervene to save people. Let's create a human example: I see a bleeding person on the street, and as a doctor I know how to save him from dieing, but instead walk away, then a court of law could find me guilty of negligience if not worse. Even without the threat of fines we could reasonably expect a doctor to take care of the person though. Thus the conclusion must be that this god who is all-knowing and even mildly powerful apparently is of lesser virtue than a human doctor.
Quote:
The other point here is that there are thousands of testimonies from Christians that survived Katrina which talk about God intervening because of their prayers, "coincidences" which they know to be impossible.
What's that? God acting as a social servant ? ;-)
Are you claiming that devout Protestants are not killed in natural disasters ? You might be familiar with the forum "Rapture Ready" which can be rather entertaining to read. Shortly after the mining disaster last year when the false news were broadcast that a large number of miners had been saved, the people over on these forums started praising god for this miracle. Eventually the statement was revised that they were not saved, but oddly enough nobody decided to blame god for his negligience. The same kind of selective perception is going on here.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Marco_Grubert]
#66482
03/15/06 21:54
03/15/06 21:54
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
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Quote:
It all comes back to the old omnimax refutation of god. If god was powerful and had knowledge of the suffering caused by natural evil (assuming he did not cause it), as a benevolent being he should intervene to save people. Let's create a human example: I see a bleeding person on the street, and as a doctor I know how to save him from dieing, but instead walk away, then a court of law could find me guilty of negligience if not worse. Even without the threat of fines we could reasonably expect a doctor to take care of the person though. Thus the conclusion must be that this god who is all-knowing and even mildly powerful apparently is of lesser virtue than a human doctor
I agree with this 100%
Quote:
What's that? God acting as a social servant ? ;-)
 No, you have to go half-way with prayer, you cant just expect God to do everything.
The parallel is an umbrella someone gives you to protect you from the rain. If you dont use the umbrella (through prayer and faith) it is no good to just carry it around with you, if you dont believe in the umbrella then it certainly does no good for you, if you stomp on the umrella and dare the world to rain on you you will definately get wet.
So the umbrella is there, but God isnt running around holding it over everyone's head.
Quote:
Are you claiming that devout Protestants are not killed in natural disasters ?
No. I dont understand why things like that happen, I can only have faith for my life and my family.
Quote:
You might be familiar with the forum "Rapture Ready" which can be rather entertaining to read. Shortly after the mining disaster last year when the false news were broadcast that a large number of miners had been saved, the people over on these forums started praising god for this miracle. Eventually the statement was revised that they were not saved, but oddly enough nobody decided to blame god for his negligience. The same kind of selective perception is going on here.
I have never heard of these guys, certainly all Christians dont believe alike, I would disagree with this group.
Thanks for the reply.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Marco_Grubert]
#66483
03/15/06 21:59
03/15/06 21:59
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,867
Neuro
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,867
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Quote:
Shortly after the mining disaster last year when the false news were broadcast that a large number of miners had been saved, the people over on these forums started praising god for this miracle. Eventually the statement was revised that they were not saved, but oddly enough nobody decided to blame god for his negligience. The same kind of selective perception is going on here.
Interesting, instantly remined me of a quote from Al Pacino's character from the Devil's Advocate : "When HE does something good, its considered a miracle, but when HE does something bad, its "He works in mysterious ways"." A pretty good movie, and that one line stands out the most.
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I look forward to death.
Heh, yeah right.
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Neuro]
#66484
03/15/06 22:10
03/15/06 22:10
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
Interesting, instantly remined me of a quote from Al Pacino's character from the Devil's Advocate : "When HE does something good, its considered a miracle, but when HE does something bad, its "He works in mysterious ways"." A pretty good movie, and that one line stands out the most.
Why would HE be doing something good OR something bad, supposedly you dont believe HE exists, so it shouldnt bother you one way or the other.
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Heh, yeah right.
You dont know me Neuro, and Im getting a little sick of the personal attacks.
If I get one more unwarranted attack against me, then Im not gonna hold back myself and we will all find ourselves in the middle of a little flame war. I put up with it enough, Im already getting pissed...
So if anyone feels brave be my guest,...
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Re: for doubters of God's existance
[Re: Neuro]
#66485
03/15/06 22:10
03/15/06 22:10
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 535
Michigan
ICEman
Developer
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Developer
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 535
Michigan
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@ Marco
Why does it have to be nonexplanable by science?
An alien from a society ten thousand years ahead of ours can do that. It doesnt take a God, as it wouldnt make them Gods simpyl because they can do things beyond our know-how or understanding.
This is again assuming that what is responsible for our existance IS a "God" and not simply a creator of vast knowledge and therefore power. A being can be very very powerful because of the knowledge he possesses, and still be bound by the laws of the logical (note that I didnt say physical) universe... meaning they dont have to be capable of turning water into wine (tho im sure with the right amount of study that too can be done).. they dont have to be capable of "magic" to be the one responsible for all things.
I'm ICEman, and I approved this message.
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