Hilbert's Hotel

Diskussionsforum zur Unendlichkeit: Theismus, Atheismus, Primzahlen, Unsterblichkeit, das Universum...
Discussing Infinity: theism and atheism, prime numbers, immortality, cosmology, philosophy...

Gamestudio Links
Zorro Links
Newest Posts
Blobsculptor tools and objects download here
by NeoDumont. 03/28/24 03:01
Issue with Multi-Core WFO Training
by aliswee. 03/24/24 20:20
Why Zorro supports up to 72 cores?
by Edgar_Herrera. 03/23/24 21:41
Zorro Trader GPT
by TipmyPip. 03/06/24 09:27
VSCode instead of SED
by 3run. 03/01/24 19:06
AUM Magazine
Latest Screens
The Bible Game
A psychological thriller game
SHADOW (2014)
DEAD TASTE
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (monk12, Quad), 830 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
sakolin, rajesh7827, juergen_wue, NITRO_FOREVER, jack0roses
19043 Registered Users
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 6 of 23 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 22 23
Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: ICEman] #66486
03/15/06 22:49
03/15/06 22:49
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,236
San Diego, CA
M
Marco_Grubert Offline
Expert
Marco_Grubert  Offline
Expert
M

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,236
San Diego, CA
Quote:

Why does it have to be nonexplanable by science?


Cause otherwise we would call it stage magic

Quote:

An alien from a society ten thousand years ahead of ours can do that. It doesnt take a God, as it wouldnt make them Gods simpyl because they can do things beyond our know-how or understanding.


You are absolutely correct. That's why I was careful in talking about "powerful entity" here. I don't think you can get physical proof for the existence of a god, all you could get is physical proof for the existence of an entity that has a lot more knowledge than we do. It's a minimum requirement if you will.

Quote:

they dont have to be capable of "magic" to be the one responsible for all things.


Well if you are claiming to be responsible for all things then I would expect you to at least mess with some physical laws. Whether you also need to be able to go against logic or not is a subject for a different thread. (Curiously enough theologians seem to agree that god can not do what is logically impossible, though I don't know why they do).

Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: ICEman] #66487
03/16/06 05:15
03/16/06 05:15
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,867
N
Neuro Offline
Serious User
Neuro  Offline
Serious User
N

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,867
Quote:

Why would HE be doing something good OR something bad, supposedly you dont believe HE exists, so it shouldnt bother you one way or the other.




Who ever said it bothers me?

Quote:

You dont know me Neuro, and Im getting a little sick of the personal attacks.




Who's attacking you? God? Jesus? That little voice in your head that tells you everyone is out to get you?

Quote:

If I get one more unwarranted attack against me, then Im not gonna hold back myself and we will all find ourselves in the middle of a little flame war. I put up with it enough, Im already getting pissed...



hahahah...woah there cowboy, you may commit a sin or something!!! And we wouldn't want that!
lol...ok I had my fun for this visit...carry on with the discussion.

Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: Neuro] #66488
03/16/06 12:52
03/16/06 12:52
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
Senior Expert
PHeMoX  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
Quote:

Shortly after the mining disaster last year when the false news were broadcast that a large number of miners had been saved, the people over on these forums started praising god for this miracle. Eventually the statement was revised that they were not saved, but oddly enough nobody decided to blame god for his negligience. The same kind of selective perception is going on here.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:


Interesting, instantly remined me of a quote from Al Pacino's character from the Devil's Advocate : "When HE does something good, its considered a miracle, but when HE does something bad, its "He works in mysterious ways"." A pretty good movie, and that one line stands out the most.








That's exactly what I don't like about religions in general, they just interpret the world around them in a way just how it would fit their view and ideology, yet they are never truly objective. I don't say looking at the world in your own way is wrong, but I don't like the jumping to conclusions and odd reasoning. Why should those people be trapped in that mine by God? Any why would he want to save them, if at all? Maybe the ground just couldn't take anymore shocks of the mining activities and collapsed as a result, but no it would have been God's work according to the religious people? Says who, and how do you know this?

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: PHeMoX] #66489
03/16/06 14:35
03/16/06 14:35
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 535
Michigan
ICEman Offline
Developer
ICEman  Offline
Developer

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 535
Michigan
xD Marco.. The reason why i said they dont have to be capable of magic is that..
ok..its stage magic to us..but its their current science... the laws of physics go well beyond our understanding, and there is much about the physical universe we dont know to be science fact...simply because we havent been out there to see and observe it into our science..and by much I mean eons worth. So there is a nice margin of things we would see as magic.

Yes.. a "God" or whatever created this universe is capable of...quite a bit of activities well beyond our comprehension, but that is because it has greater applicational knowledge of math and science.. not because it is magical. Perhaps I am wrong too, but where you expect there to be a thundering voice and lightening bolts, I expect there to be a being no more collosal than you or I... tho much wiser, and a hellovalot smarter... who simply knows how to manipulate his existance and that of the things around him because he has taken the time to learn so much information and mastered it to a point where..everything he does seems godlike because he is capable of so much that we are not.

@ Phemox..

Yup... strings of coincidence and questionable correlations.. aimed at supporting a specific partisan religious viewpoint that, my friend, is religious science for you. It's not science so much as it is trying to link religiously referenced caused with physically real effect.

:| Silly me..I always thought hurricanes were caused by troilcal pressure differences in tropical waters that develops into high pressure systems of storm... and mobilizes along currents to fed itself... and I always thought mines collapsed because of their generally weak structures being tested by said miners digging around in them.

Who knew it was God playing Sim City with our lives all along?


I'm ICEman, and I approved this message.
Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: NITRO777] #66490
03/18/06 03:26
03/18/06 03:26
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
mpdeveloper_B Offline OP
Expert
mpdeveloper_B  Offline OP
Expert

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
a person can feel God's presence if he only tries, you have to first believe in him and i believe in God fully, he is the creator of all that their is, he created all emotions all states, all statures, all that you see, is part of God, and it proves his existance, mankind believes that HE (man) has grown to great heights that he is all powerful, mankind believes that he created himself almost, however he is wrong, only God has done these things, and one thing about evolution. Evolution disproves itself, it is proven, scientifically that an animal has to live off another one, all organisms have to, so it couldn't have started with one organism and that organism split and evolved, because for those two organisms, they would have to evolve at the exact same time, the exact milisecond in order to be able to live off one another, and the single organism, must have been able to feed off another organism to begin with, before it could even evolve, else, it would have died out, and there would have been no evolution and no creatures, evolution is a lie.

I am a scientific christian, i look at things by both point of views, and by the way, if something didn't get mixed reviews, then everyone would give the same opinion, which doesn't happen, that book is one of the best books, that will turn any non-christian around, and if you do not believe me, then you read it, i challenge you and look at it the way the scientist did.


- aka Manslayer101
Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: mpdeveloper_B] #66491
03/18/06 03:32
03/18/06 03:32
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
mpdeveloper_B Offline OP
Expert
mpdeveloper_B  Offline OP
Expert

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
i'm not getting offensive about this at all, i'm quite calm about the subject, people believe what they believe because they have God-given freewill. which is the only reason debates like this go on, because one person believes differently, that's being a human, i don't try to convert people, i just spread the word, after that, my job is done.


- aka Manslayer101
Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: Scramasax] #66492
03/18/06 03:40
03/18/06 03:40
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
mpdeveloper_B Offline OP
Expert
mpdeveloper_B  Offline OP
Expert

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
@scramsax and all who think it's impossible to prove God's existance scientifically: if you believe that it's impossible to prove his existance scientifically, then you are wrong, many a scientist was converted after finding explicit evidence of God's existance, however, like all scientists, when they returned with news, their superiors disagree and would not believe in "such nonsense". They through away the thought that a higher power created every thing a mans hand touches, therefore, man is afraid of having a higher person over them, he believes that he rules his own life, and wastes what small time he has on earth. man may be "living it up" in his lifetime, but as just a man his dreams and visions die with him, however a man who has a higher power on his side, lives his life and is known for the life he lives, and most of them discover what most people don't see, whether you believe it or not, science started with christianity.


- aka Manslayer101
Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: mpdeveloper_B] #66493
03/18/06 08:54
03/18/06 08:54
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 155
USA San Diego CA
Scramasax Offline
Member
Scramasax  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 155
USA San Diego CA
@Moonslayer101
God can't be proven scientifically because its a matter of faith. Discoveries and inventions alike can't substantiate God's existence, but can be used as fulcrums to lever one's argument in one direction or another.

A simple test of my point, is can someone give me proof? In all my reading I haven't found any. All proof I've ever read or heard are simple circular arguments were one point relies on another.

I'm not saying there isn't a God, to do so would be too arrogant on my part, but their isn't anything even as concrete as a cheese burger. If there were, people would be packing in, getting super-size combo meals of divinity, at their local church franchise.

Also science didn't start with Christianity, but probably when homo habilis first discovered sharp rocks and used them as tools.

Last edited by Scramasax; 03/18/06 08:56.

www.moxiefish.com George Lancaster
Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: Scramasax] #66494
03/18/06 15:37
03/18/06 15:37
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
mpdeveloper_B Offline OP
Expert
mpdeveloper_B  Offline OP
Expert

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
well if you don't believe that he can be proved scientifically, then you are wrong, because there is still proof muddled away in ruins on this earth, things that prove the existance by proving other things mentioned by the bible, once again, you will have to read the book to understand what i'm talking about.


- aka Manslayer101
Re: for doubters of God's existance [Re: Gnometech] #66495
03/18/06 16:06
03/18/06 16:06
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
mpdeveloper_B Offline OP
Expert
mpdeveloper_B  Offline OP
Expert

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,185
i agree what is wrong with most christians, they won't do things for themselves and they just pray, with no action at all, this is where most christians go wrong, God doesn't only want prayer, he wants you to do something about it. like if someone wants to lose weight, then they may pray to God about losing it, but will continue eating the way they do until they get heart disease, and so on. Also another problem with some christians and scientists is thet they believe what they believe and can't anyone tell them any different, this is wrong as well, alot of things happened because of this, first off christianity excused science and visa-versa, because each thought that the ideas of the other was preposterous. Theologists thought that there was no way that the earth was as old as it could be, and that the world was created in seven days flat, wrong, science is right about the earth being old as it is, the only reason theologists believe that it was in seven days is because the "english" translation has that in it, when the original hebrew says that God "began to create", not "created the earth in seven days". Scientists disagree in the proof of God at all, and throw away the idea that some almighty power could never have created the earth science is wrong in disbelieving what proof has come about, you may be wandering what proof, but once again if you read the book then your look on "God can't be proven scientifically" will be proven wrong.

for example: the way the bible is worded

when the bible is read in hebrew, and since hebrew is a numeric language there is a number for each word. in the bible only the things that are stressed by God as perfect things have perfect squares on the number.

i will not go into much detail in that example as it is in the book.

if you want a cheaper version of the book here it is on half.com(not the $26 one):
http://product.half.ebay.com/A-Scientific-Approach-to-Christianity_W0QQprZ579099QQtgZinfo

conclusion: both science and christianity can be wrong in the way they dismiss what they hear from one another. all context above is explained in the book, BY SCIENCE.

Last edited by Manslayer101; 03/18/06 16:12.

- aka Manslayer101
Page 6 of 23 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 22 23

Moderated by  jcl, Lukas, old_bill, Spirit 

Kompaktes W�rterbuch des UnendlichenCompact Dictionary of the Infinite


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1