|
1 registered members (1 invisible),
672
guests, and 0
spiders. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: Science vs Wack Jobs
[Re: capanno]
#69242
10/12/06 19:40
10/12/06 19:40
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
|
Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
Quote:
God must love stupid people. he made so many.
/semi-serious and sarcastic:
Lol, hey don't start what you don't want to see through to the end!! Hahaha, suddenly you seem to be questioning wether or not we are really created in his image, aren't you?  Oww but wait, no, we wouldn't want to see God as a stupid person, that would be so disrespectful. You've just sinned and you didn't even know it, don't worry though, I'm sure he'll forgive you.  
/more serious
The quote you've mentioned only proves once more to me that religious people are or can be filled with lot's of ignorance, arrogance, a weird kind of 'blind loyalty' and are to damn confident for only having a freaking soapbubble-theory. Confidence as in dead ignorant confidence. I don't know, there must be method to the madness somewhere, ... lol, where?
No prove, no solid base, no arguments that even come close to even start thinking about making any kind of claim that justifies what religion actually does. I guess lies become holy somehow just by telling them long enough.
Trust me on my words when I say that hope doesn't create truth, lies don't get you to 'heaven', whatever that may be, and all uncertainties are just that, uncertainties.
Yeah, I guess I should keep my voice down, otherwise those bubbles might pop. 
/end of serious sarcasm, disclaimer: don't confuse this for anything personal please. Call me confused, call me an idiot, mimick the other religious guys saying I'm 'spiritually blind'. I just don't understand the logic, or maybe ... just maybe .. I understand perfectly ...
Cheers
|
|
|
Re: Science vs Wack Jobs
[Re: PHeMoX]
#69243
10/13/06 04:08
10/13/06 04:08
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
|
honestly we have no proof of a god... but as a christian i look at it this way, so many things to believe in and one has to be right somewere because those unanswerable questions have to be answered somewere and out of all religions christianity seems to have the most logical backing, do i think god is "supernatural"? no, i think there is a larger system than just what we see from earth, i think there has to be some system made by someone larger than us that may even live in his own system, idk, but out of all explainations christianity seems to make the most sense, take the parting of the red sea for instance, recorded in history, and proofed to some extent by a small patch in the current day area of land under water that was only a small with of water that shallow surrounded by incredibly deep water, you know what scientists found under there??? gilded chariot wheels.. things like this make christianity the only logical explaination as for athiests, well you dont really have much of a case either, because your answer is basically, "i dont know the answers, but i know christianity is not"
|
|
|
Re: Science vs Wack Jobs
[Re: lostclimate]
#69244
10/13/06 06:36
10/13/06 06:36
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,978
Frankfurt
jcl
OP
Chief Engineer
|
OP
Chief Engineer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,978
Frankfurt
|
Christianity has the very same "logical backing" as Islam, Hinduism, or Voodoo - zilch. A religion is not about logic, but about a spiritual state of mind.
For that reason, history, logic, or science can never contradict a religion. You can easily prove that many events from the bible never happened, but would that make your Christian belief worthless? Certainly not.
Problems only arise when people try to mix their religion with the secular world view. This produces strange results like Geocentrism or Creationism. Until the 19th century, the Roman-Catholic church and many Christians still believed that the earth was the center of the universe, despite scientists had proven this wrong centuries ago. The reason was that the church felt attacked by science - unnecessarily. For the same reason, a few Christians and Muslims still believe in Creationism today.
|
|
|
Re: Science vs Wack Jobs
[Re: jcl]
#69245
10/13/06 09:39
10/13/06 09:39
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
Matt_Aufderheide
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
|
Quote:
For that reason, history, logic, or science can never contradict a religio
I disagree here.. science often contradicts religious dogma (which in many ways IS religion).
|
|
|
Re: Science vs Wack Jobs
[Re: lostclimate]
#69248
10/13/06 15:02
10/13/06 15:02
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
|
Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
Quote:
im not saying many things in science dont contradict christianity, i am saying tho, that you can look at events in the bible and there is still small proofs that some of the stuff may have happened, were as the other religions you dont here about this type of thing.
Okey, let me just counter your 'there's some proof' in this case:
-They didn't find chariot wheels there .. Yes, they found one or two coral objects that looked like a chariot wheel and axe, but most of them turned out to be just coral on coral, not coral on wood or any other material.
-Also, think about it for a minute, the bible said 'all the chariots of Egypt' went in pursuit, right? Well, what happened to all those many many other chariots? Kinda strange they vanished indeed. Especially when thinking about 'the speculation that there were 20,000 chariots destroyed that day.' We would have found at least 500 chariots or remnants of them if this speculation was anywhere near the original amount of them. We've found only about four possible chariot objects? That's no evidence for a pursuit at all, even if they are chariot wheels... 
-Don't underestimate the cooperation of Jordan, Egypt and Isreal to promote tourism in that area either... As for the wheels, they've clearly jumped to conclusions there and now it's news as if it's truth.
-According to photographs on 'arkdyscovery.com' (yes, obviously a pro-christianity site) one of the coral objects looked very much like a chariot wheel, however at least one other photograph there is a fake, because you can see two different types of chariot wheels, one of them absolutely didn't even exist yet back in the times this all supposedly happened ... 18th dynasty wheels my ass, one of them is more like a way more recent chariot wheel. Visit that site, buy some books on chariot wheels and see for yourself.
-There's only one photograph on 'arkdyscovery.com' that seems to me to be a 4 spoke 18th dynasty chariot wheel, but they haven't actually excavated it. Kinda strange when they supposedly found it, when searching for gold.
-Apart from that, three other photographs look like coral, not necessarily an axe of a chariot like they want to see it.
-Another thing, popular believe is, the sea was parted by God's strong wind. Well, according to the description of the 'walls of water' this would have caused, it's simply impossible for people to even survive standing in such a wind. It's simply physically and mathematically impossible. 
Site with comments from both sides ...
-Also there are some problems with the timeframe with this whole escape too. Man on horseback are way faster than chariots, and still both drowned? In a pursuit, the fastest go the fastest and catch up, they won't stick around the chariots.
-Also, lot's of chariots supposedly were destroyed. What ever happened to all those egyptians and their horses?
Quote:
A Swedish scientist who believes the Red Sea was split says while Humphreys is correct about the Aqaba crossing, there are no natural, scientific explanations for the parting miracle described in Scripture.
"The wind did not separate the water," says Lennart Moller of the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. "No person could be in that wind and survive. ... If God has created all the Earth, it's no problem for Him to separate the water for a while."
He forgot to add, there's no geological evidence for it either, which would have been the case if the 'parting of the sea' with very high 'water walls' had actually happened. There would have been enormous forces involved when that water came down again.
This could be anything. So again what proof?
Supposedly found by Ron Wyatt, which he claims to be an 8 spoked 18th dynasty-only chariot wheel. I say, no offence, but dream on. 
Cheers
|
|
|
Re: Science vs Wack Jobs
[Re: PHeMoX]
#69249
10/14/06 22:57
10/14/06 22:57
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
User
|
User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
|
Quote:
Also, think about it for a minute, the bible said 'all the chariots of Egypt' went in pursuit, right? Well, what happened to all those many many other chariots? Kinda strange they vanished indeed. Especially when thinking about 'the speculation that there were 20,000 chariots destroyed that day.' We would have found at least 500 chariots or remnants of them if this speculation was anywhere near the original amount of them. We've found only about four possible chariot objects? That's no evidence for a pursuit at all, even if they are chariot wheels...
There is a lack of physical evidence for other historical events that we accept as true. So, who knows?
Quote:
Another thing, popular believe is, the sea was parted by God's strong wind. Well, according to the description of the 'walls of water' this would have caused, it's simply impossible for people to even survive standing in such a wind. It's simply physically and mathematically impossible.
Argument from lack of imagination? Once the water is parted, it needent be windy anywhere except on the walls of water to keep them away. It doesn't have to be extremely windy all the way between the walls of water.
Quote:
Also there are some problems with the timeframe with this whole escape too. Man on horseback are way faster than chariots, and still both drowned? In a pursuit, the fastest go the fastest and catch up, they won't stick around the chariots.
There wouldn't be that big of a difference in speed, and why even send chariots if you're just going to ditch them anyway?
Quote:
-Also, lot's of chariots supposedly were destroyed. What ever happened to all those egyptians and their horses?
Dead people float, and then rot, and disappear. As far as any other physical evidence? Have they thoroughly combed, and dug up the sea floor looking for evidence over every bit?
Quote:
He forgot to add, there's no geological evidence for it either, which would have been the case if the 'parting of the sea' with very high 'water walls' had actually happened. There would have been enormous forces involved when that water came down again.
What exactly would you expect to find, in this case? Non-conformity of the ocean floor? Like what we surely find?
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
|
|
|
Re: Science and Creation
[Re: Ran Man]
#69250
01/22/07 12:57
01/22/07 12:57
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 791
NRW, Deutschland
inFusion
User
|
User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 791
NRW, Deutschland
|
Has anyone answered the Mississippi Delta thing? Sry It would just take years to read all of this Quote:
1 - River deltas. The Mississippi River dumps 300 million cubic yards [229 million cm] of mud into the Gulf of Mexico each year—continually enlarging the delta area. Yet the Mississippi delta is not large. Calculations reveal it has only been forming for the past 4,000 years (4,620 years, to be exact). If the world were 120,000 years old, that delta would extend all the way to the North Pole .—pp. 27-28.
Simple to disprove this. Why should the Mississippi have existed for 120,000 years? Then it is 4000 years old, so what, the earth is constantly changing its face. Rivers arise and decay constantly. WHAT KIND OF ARGUMENT IS THIS?!
I've read a lot of pro-creationism-arguments in this thread. I must say half of them are false, the other half is just stupid and ridiculous.
I can't agree more with Matt Aufderheide. You can answer any question with "God did it" aswell as you can answer anything with "A giant spaghetti monster did it". Who can prove this to be wrong? Noone. Who can prove me wrong if I say "I don't exist, god only makes you thinkg that I exist."?
...
You know what? In fact, I am Jesus Christ. It's true! Really! God just forbid me to cause miracles or do anything that would clearly identify me beeing Jesus.
....
10€ to anyone who can disprove that I am Jesus!
|
|
|
|
