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Who's god's god? (kudos to phemox)
#76207
06/01/06 03:44
06/01/06 03:44
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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So lets assume Irish_Farmer and his ilk are right. So we take for granted that all the sinners and atheists like me are gonna burn because theres a great big angry bearded man in the sky who made the universe and he ain't happy with us.
BUT, more importantly, we take for granted that the universe - that is, ALL EXISTANCE was created by this large impressively facial-haired being. Yet, he exists. He existed... before time. Before existance.
I believe it was Irish himself who said nothing comes from nothing. Everyhting must have cause. So...
What's the cause? I mean even ignoring the conundrum that soemthing ALLKNOWING and ALLPOWERFUL would bother creating a universe, and time and all that when they already would automatically know how it would end...
Why the hell (oopsy!) is there this big all-powerful bearded guy sitting in infinite darkness? Don't throw this 'you can't possibly comprehend' cra at me either, you know very well that this question is unanswerable. it makes no sense whatsoever. Theres nothing to comprehend. Unless something created him, remember we're not arguing his existance, only WHY and HOW.
AND if he was created, what is the nature of his creator? WHy did it choose to create such a boring environment for its glowing child? What created it? How can there be a time before the universe if time does not exist?
If you all-knowing religionist experts actually have anyhting cosntructive to say (no offense but from lurking in ever yother topic it seems all you say is 'you're wrong, read the bible' and 'you can't possibly comprehend the answer' - at least my side is trying to be original every now and then EX: this thread)
then absolutely feel free to come on in and give your two-cents. Same for everybody else.
My Theory: Assuming god exists, he was probably created by a ten-legged cow-femur with googly eyes and floppy ears duct-taped on. This was probably created by an ugly duckling, and that by the FSM. The FSM was probably the byproduct of a pastasperiment which ended the metaverse, and restarted meta-time (that's time without time) I think this makes a lot of sense. As for evidence, theres none because the universe exists where the nothingness used to be. There is this paragraph written by an enlightened teenager from Ottawa, that's right I admit my age, and as for how it's possible, you can't possibly comprehend.
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Re: Who's god's god? (kudos to phemox)
#76208
06/01/06 05:06
06/01/06 05:06
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
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Quote:
So we take for granted that all the sinners and atheists like me are gonna burn
That's a rather pessimistic way of looking at it, isn't it?
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I believe it was Irish himself who said nothing comes from nothing. Everyhting must have cause. So...
What's the cause? I mean even ignoring the conundrum that soemthing ALLKNOWING and ALLPOWERFUL would bother creating a universe, and time and all that when they already would automatically know how it would end...
You're missing one important distinction. Everything within our physical universe must have a cause. Its only true, because we observe it to be true WITHIN our universe. You're talking about God, who is outside of cause. We can't possibly ask to comprehend God, I'm sorry if that offends you. However, we can ask perhaps a more important question. What is there, if there is no creator? I don't see why my idea looks more unreasonable, although I know why you find it so unreasonable.
How did nothing create the universe? Is this beyond my comprehension? Should I just take it on faith? You can't possibly hope to destroy my belief without making yours look ridiculous in the process.
God, in his infinite wisdom made it possible to understand His power through His creation, without overwhelming us with His entirety. What we cannot understand about Him is unimportant, what's important is what we CAN understand about Him through his creation. And that's something that's readily apparent for anyone to see, if they want to.
More importantly, its something that's outside of time. Before we even knew about space, we could grasp God's power through what we knew about just the earth. Then, when we discover space we can STILL grasp God's power through the additional knowledge. This isn't something that changes the more we know. If anything, it just becomes easier to see as time goes on.
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is there this big all-powerful bearded guy sitting in infinite darkness?
According to you? That just begs the question. What makes you think He is?
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Don't throw this 'you can't possibly comprehend' cra at me either, you know very well that this question is unanswerable.
I'm not going to bother answering an irrelevant question. I don't think he is living in some dark room outside our universe.
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Theres nothing to comprehend.
Apparently there is, because here we are able to comprehend it. Able to wonder why a universe could possibly exist with no cause. Sounds like a rather strange thing for a 'random collection of chemicals' to be able to do.
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AND if he was created, what is the nature of his creator? WHy did it choose to create such a boring environment for its glowing child?
You're going to have to translate this for me. I've never heard anyone refer to a glowing child before. And what boring environment is this?
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How can there be a time before the universe if time does not exist?
How can time sprout from non-time? Furthermore, what does it matter. Obviously God wouldn't be influenced by time.
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(no offense but from lurking in ever yother topic it seems all you say is 'you're wrong, read the bible'
No one has said this once. But its pretty apparent that you're reading these words through a pretty heavy filter, otherwise you wouldn't think that.
Evolutionists are the ones who can't get off the topic of religion, I've been trying to keep it on science as much as possible.
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at least my side is trying to be original every now and then EX: this thread)
These same spiteful, fallacious arguments have been brought up for years. You're not doing anything new here. No one is.
I'll pray for you, because I think your anger has been a wide open door through which Satan entered and decided to play fiddle with your mind. Its the most I can do as a meager sinner (I'm in the same boat as you, buddy). But in the end, whatever happens has nothing to do with me. I've probably misrepresented myself many times on this forum. And I've probably not been a perfect representative of Jesus like I should be.
And I'm not trying to offend you by saying this, because I know you have real reasons for believing what you believe and I wouldn't marginalize those reasons. However, its plain to see that your post was meant as an attack (there are ways of saying this nicely), and to me it seemed rather angry. So you'll have to forgive me if my worldview picks up on this.
Its amazing that we even have to discuss this, though. We call ourselves enlightened and say that we've figured out a way to disprove God, without whom the universe wouldn't even exist. 
You sit here and focus on the anger, and wrath of God (you sound like the fire and brimstone mongerers that christians are always portrayed to be). You forget the Love and Mercy that God has offered us, to allow us to inherit what He has made rightfully ours. It isn't natural to go to hell. Its not God's plan for atheists, its the atheist's plan for him/herself.
If I build an electric fence and then put it next to paradise to keep the paradise from being corrupted by outside influences, and someone in paradise keeps choosing to run into the electric fence, would it make sense for them to put the blame on me? I didn't create the electric fence for that person, I created paradise for that person. They chose to suffer.
In that way, hell was meant for Satan. If people choose to follow him there, whatever excuses and faulty logic they choose to pave that road with, its still their choice.
By the way, don't get too hung up on your age. I'm still a teenager too. Well, not for long.
This should be a good splinter topic.
Last edited by Irish_Farmer; 06/01/06 05:10.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: Who's god's god? (kudos to phemox)
#76210
06/01/06 14:06
06/01/06 14:06
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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So lets assume Irish_Farmer and his ilk are right. So we take for granted that all the sinners and atheists like me are gonna burn because theres a great big angry bearded man in the sky who made the universe and he ain't happy with us.
God's not angry. Your thinking of a different God than the Judeo_Christian God. After the sacrifice of Jesus He is now a lover, everybody may come to God.
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BUT, more importantly, we take for granted that the universe - that is, ALL EXISTANCE was created by this large impressively facial-haired being. Yet, he exists. He existed... before time. Before existance.
Why do you think He has facial hair? I have facial hair, the Bible says nothing about God's facial hair. Jesus was bearded, we know that, we know that because they tore his beard out of His face when they crucified Him.
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What's the cause? I mean even ignoring the conundrum that soemthing ALLKNOWING and ALLPOWERFUL would bother creating a universe, and time and all that when they already would automatically know how it would end...
He wanted fellowship and relationship with creatures who were just like Him. Thats why He made man in His image. Thats why He walked with them everyday in the garden of Eden.
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Re: Who's god's god? (kudos to phemox)
[Re: NITRO777]
#76211
06/01/06 20:09
06/01/06 20:09
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Anonymous
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Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Unregistered
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I submit that that which does not exist in our universe cannot walk with animals in a marsh in iraq (which is where eden is - at least according to myths way older than your little upstart monotheistic cult  )
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Re: Who's god's god? (kudos to phemox)
[Re: NITRO777]
#76213
06/02/06 00:18
06/02/06 00:18
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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My Theory: Assuming god exists, he was probably created by a ten-legged cow-femur with googly eyes and floppy ears duct-taped on. This was probably created by an ugly duckling, and that by the FSM. The FSM was probably the byproduct of a pastasperiment which ended the metaverse, and restarted meta-time (that's time without time) I think this makes a lot of sense. As for evidence, theres none because the universe exists where the nothingness used to be. There is this paragraph written by an enlightened teenager from Ottawa, that's right I admit my age, and as for how it's possible, you can't possibly comprehend.
Why don't you post as a registered guy, don't be shy hehehe. Thanks for the kudos btw, however there have been plenty of philosophers before me thinking along that line (who's god's god?) ...
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He wanted fellowship and relationship with creatures who were just like Him. Thats why He made man in His image. Thats why He walked with them everyday in the garden of Eden.
How can we possibly know this, let alone comprehend what a God thinks or would think? Why would a God need fellowship? Why does a God think at all? It doesn't have to if it would be allknowing, so either he is not allknowing and the bible is wrong, or he is allknowing and the bible is still wrong, or he simply doesn't exist.
Apart from that I don't like the idea of being someone's Ken barbie doll to play around with, oow wait it said 'in his image', then God must have a very colorfull skin, a gigantic diverse split-personality and be both good and evil at the same time. That is, if we are still being made 'in his image'.
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Its not God's plan for atheists, its the atheist's plan for him/herself.
I would like to have a little chat with God about this statement, because this statement hardly goes considering all the 'mysteries' surrounding God's existence in the first place. Reveal thyself and I will believe thy exist.  I wouldn't dare to challenge a God off course, but I will remind him off this 'minor detail' on my judgement day.  You see, if there's such a thing as an allknowing and presumably all-understanding God, then he would know what to do with all atheists that believe in 'seeing is believing' kind of reasoning. Especially when 'created in His image' means, that we are the way we are.
Cheers
Last edited by PHeMoX; 06/02/06 00:29.
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Re: Who's god's god? (kudos to phemox)
#76214
06/02/06 19:30
06/02/06 19:30
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
Expert
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
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I submit that that which does not exist in our universe cannot walk with animals in a marsh in iraq ( which is where eden is - at least according to myths way older than your little upstart monotheistic cult )
No buddy that is wrong... Eden or heaven is actually in the new game we are making. <see screenshot below> 
And yes all the creatures there walk together and are equals. Agghh, yes peace at last... 
LOL
Well, it's peace until Noah's sons get to them!
Woo, Ha, Ha!
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Re: Who's god's god? (kudos to phemox)
[Re: Ran Man]
#76215
06/03/06 01:02
06/03/06 01:02
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
User
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User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
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Apart from that I don't like the idea of being someone's Ken barbie doll to play around with
Man, what a terrible way to live your life.
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oow wait it said 'in his image', then God must have a very colorfull skin, a gigantic diverse split-personality and be both good and evil at the same time. That is, if we are still being made 'in his image'.
This is like me asking, if the sun is really a ball of fire millions of miles away, why is it a small spot hanging over my head. You're looking at it with an irrelevant point of view.
This reminds me of a children's story I once read. In the The Last Battle by C.S. Lewis there are these dwarves in a barn with the main characters. The main characters are calling out to them, and even though its bright as day the dwarves claim they can't see a thing. When the main characters try and feed them some of the delicious food, and wine, the dwarves eat some and spit it out saying, "Why would you feed us hay." Finally Aslan stops the characters and says, "Some people blind themselves to the truth, and there's nothing that can open their eyes." Quite a poignant statement, me thinks. And since some of the people on this forum will believe anything a philosopher says, it must be true! I can just apply what Lewis wrote to anyone I want, and I'm right! Its amazing how that works.
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I would like to have a little chat with God about this statement, because this statement hardly goes considering all the 'mysteries' surrounding God's existence in the first place. Reveal thyself and I will believe thy exist.
Hm. I'm not going to respond to this, because it would be pointless. But I do have to say, "Hm."
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: Who's god's god? (kudos to phemox)
[Re: Ran Man]
#76216
06/03/06 02:28
06/03/06 02:28
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,655
testDummy
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Posts: 1,655
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No buddy that is wrong... Eden or heaven is actually in the new game we are making. <see screenshot below>
What makes you think there are pirate kitties in heaven? If you are going to use heavenly pirate kitties I hope you are working them into the storyline properly. (If done incorrectly there might be loop holes in the plot and, shockingly, some parts of the story might not make sense.) "Yaarg, er, I mean meow. Hand over the kitty treats, the tuna fish, and the Purina Cat chow or walk the plank, and get swatted at like a ball of yarn. Yaarg, there be treasure in my litter box, if ye scoop it."
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And yes all the creatures there walk together and are equals. Agghh, yes peace at last...
LOL
Except, once you mix piracy and kitties, and unleash them in heaven, there can be no peace.
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Well, it's peace until Noah's sons get to them!
Woo, Ha, Ha!
I see. So in the game, the protagonist must stop Noah's sons from molesting animals and turning them into pirates? The milk thickens.
Every dummy knows that kitties, after expending their nine lives, due to their curiosity, go to hell, not heaven, and pirate kitties, particularly, go straight to hell.
I wonder if I strayed from the dreadfully serious topic.
Is information pertaining to personal beliefs, religious affiliations, strict faith in god(s) or science, like information that details the consistency, color and number of bowel movements you had yesterday...unnecessary, generally undesirable information which should be expunged only on a need-to-know basis?
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