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Re: Things evolution [Re: Irish_Farmer] #78220
08/05/06 08:39
08/05/06 08:39
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Alberto Offline
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Alberto  Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

What Evolution can't explain?
If you look at all the most terrible crimes against humanity, the vast majority of them were done in the name of some religion ( or one of the many namees of god).





I have been reading in these days the "Histories" By Plutarco
He tell about Greeks and Persians wars
I was astonished
I was expecting a wild world.
On the contrary.
Some crimes are not approved both by the Greeks and by the Persians
It is a war of course, but you never feel "hate" in his words

Plutarco , The Greeks and The persian generals seem to highly respect the enemy

Honestly it is hard to see the same behaviours in religious people

Re: Things evolution [Re: Alberto] #78221
08/05/06 13:18
08/05/06 13:18
Joined: Jul 2002
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Austria
Blattsalat Offline
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@alberto:

this doesnt work like that. you are twisting situations to your needs and add values that fit your needs.

based on your theory always group b or c are "good" ones to survive.
the problem starts if you compare a t rex hunting for chickens. The defense or care wont help the chickens at all. they will have to evolve defensive patterns to be able to survive long enough (it not about winning the war).

if chickens are so hard to catch that any t rex will run his lill ass of to get one or two a day and he needs more then that, this prey will be "unefficient" for him and therefor not on his list.

so, running away, hiding, playing dead and so on are the most efficient patterns to survive and most animals will act like that.
unless the breed gets his hands on a new defensive pattern.

humans with a gun can defend themselfs from a trex. humans without a gun should run and hide.

so basicly evolution is based on your possibilities and chances. The fittest may survive because "mama has a gun"

the humans that used their brains instead of their strenght survived and where able to pass their genes. so more brainiacs where born while the schwarzeneggers either died out or became governours.
amongst those humans who had brain and used it the ones who found families (=backup, cover, learning aso) lived on and passed their knowledge onto a broad ground. The other ones who didnt also did not befenfit from all the horde advantages and either had to learn everything from start or died by breaking on leg and not being able to hunt anymore.

those brainicas who survived either split into a social system that grants more efficienty by deligating different jobs to different units so they could survive hunger and illness or all of them where running arround doing the same and where killed by one incident they did not expect.

thats all about there is. being as we are granted us one big advantage over all the other humans that where: we are alive.
and being alive is a big plus if you want to spread genes


-->..."Where does the spirit of sacrifice come from"

first of all it is not a spirit but an instinct. And as said above, those goups who didnt have this instinct or surpressed it lowerd their chances in different circumstances and died out.
If you are weak and have a lousy phsical set up like humans have you need to find alternative back ups that will make a survival possible.

a social system as we have it now is also based on spread knowledge. if you cut out one single animal or human from a horde and place him on an island he wont be able to grow social attributes and will have a very hard time to addapt to our living system.
our rights or wrongs or does and donts are what we agreed on and not a universal sheme. writing helps to spread ideas, talking helps to interact and so on.
and ad a matter of fact languages and talk have to be learned by everyone of us after we are born and dont just pop out.
they are based on our social surrounding. Thats why there are different languages and writings.
if there would be an universal and god sheme there wont be so much difference.

god said "there shall be light" but can anyone tell me did he say that in english or does he able espaniol.
if we are a refelction of what god is then he is not capable of speaking and writing


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Re: Things evolution [Re: Blattsalat] #78222
08/05/06 18:13
08/05/06 18:13
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Alberto Offline
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BlattSalatt

It is not my personal opinion
I was just repeating what I have read in some books
b ) and c) are neither general nor the most efficient behaviours for all situations but it is a matter of fact that some animals use this strategy

Everybody knows that a ants comunity is divided into warriors and workers
The warriors fight for the benefit of comunity not only for themselves

Also some migrant birds do the same
Under attack , just a minority engage the battle
All the others birds keep flying
A migrant bird can not afford to lose energy due to the long trip.
Thanks to the sacrifice of few members the whole comunity can survive

In conclusion "Love" or "spirit or sacrifice " or "generosity" are not unique characteristics of the human kind
It seems amazing but they are also a product of evolutionism

Re: Things evolution [Re: Alberto] #78223
08/07/06 07:57
08/07/06 07:57
Joined: Nov 2004
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Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Quote:

"Evolution is true because God this and God that." Get a new argument.




What a "smart" discussion. You are so far away from any logic. I never told Evolution is true because of God. This was an example to show your way of arguing.

But nevertheless - evolution is backed up with way more evidences and that is the point you never can wipe out with your distracting way of arguing in this forum.

Concerning T-Rex and chickens: That is easy to follow. Most of the very big predators are extincted. They were specialized. They had to eat much of prey. Smaller generalized animals have better chances to survive over the millions of years. All today's mammals came from very small mammals that even survived the dinosaurs.


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Re: Things evolution [Re: Machinery_Frank] #78224
08/07/06 14:02
08/07/06 14:02
Joined: Jul 2002
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Austria
Blattsalat Offline
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Blattsalat  Offline
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-->..It seems amazing but they are also a product of evolutionism..

since evolution is no active force it can not produce anything in the first place.

love or family bounnds are not the product they are the result of evolution. and as a matter of fact they are the current result of it.
this can change in no time if the environment changes dramaticly.


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Re: Things evolution [Re: Blattsalat] #78225
08/07/06 21:17
08/07/06 21:17
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline
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Quote:

love or family bounds are not the product they are the result of evolution




I'm not sure that this distinction is warranted; in English the terms are very similar in this case. "Product" doesnt imply a conscious or directed result.

However, one should be careful to remember that in evolution there is no "end result" only continous transition.


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Re: Things evolution [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #78226
08/12/06 22:09
08/12/06 22:09

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This isn't something I really care to admit to some of you. But some personal problems popped up. Something I need to focus more of my energy on, and right now posting here would be counterproductive.

Despite some religious bigotry, its been fun. I've enjoyed talking to you, JCL. The discussions have been enlightening, and they've been a great learning experience.

I'll probably pop in every now and then to comment on things here and there. But I can't debate anymore.

Until later...

Re: Things evolution #78227
08/12/06 22:09
08/12/06 22:09
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer Offline OP
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Irish_Farmer  Offline OP
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Stupid computer. That was me.


"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
Re: Things evolution [Re: Irish_Farmer] #78228
08/13/06 02:39
08/13/06 02:39
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777 Offline
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Quote:

I'll probably pop in every now and then to comment on things here and there. But I can't debate anymore.


Are you still planning to take the college classes this year? Maybe after you take some classes you can come back and debate some more. Maybe then this thread will someday be called an "intelligent conversaton".

Re: Things evolution #78229
08/13/06 10:37
08/13/06 10:37
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline
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Quote:

This isn't something I really care to admit to some of you. But some personal problems popped up.




Everyone has personal problems.. and I dont see how posting on a forum can prevent someone form dealing with them. It seems to me this just an excuse.

And it can be said that someone who has the kind of views you do has obviously had personal problems.


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