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Re: LOD? [Re: Rad_Daddy] #78362
06/18/06 21:24
06/18/06 21:24
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 857
Québec
Marky Mark Offline OP
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Marky Mark  Offline OP
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Quote:

out of curiosity, have you changed the nexus at all? I have expierenced FPS increases when I increas the nexus.




Increasing nexus is not supposed to increase FPS I think...


Yeah! IE sucks, use Mozilla...
Marc Rémillard.
Re: LOD? [Re: Marky Mark] #78363
06/18/06 21:51
06/18/06 21:51
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 857
Québec
Marky Mark Offline OP
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Marky Mark  Offline OP
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Québec
I've got an idea...

Most of my models are concentrated in the city of my outdoor level. Maybe I should do something like a kind of fog, that just hide smoothly the models when they are at X distance of the camera?

What do you think?

Last edited by Marky Mark; 06/18/06 21:52.

Yeah! IE sucks, use Mozilla...
Marc Rémillard.
Re: LOD? [Re: Marky Mark] #78364
06/18/06 23:32
06/18/06 23:32
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
ulillillia Offline
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ulillillia  Offline
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See that building with all the red lines half way to the right from the center? That's the problem. Avoid using blocks - look how long it takes to render geometry. Level geometry is *extremely slow*. Without using LOD, and applying my latest knowledge, my level shown here:



There are at least 800 buildings visible here (but actually renders as all 2388 as it takes just one visible polygon of a model for the entire thing to be rendered). Despite lacking the roof tops, I'm getting 28 fps in this. Theoretically, I should be able to get over 120 fps with this same view. The water shown uses about 8000 polygons or so, there are 50 separate entities for the platforms visible, the beach (an MDL terrain) is about 3000 polygons, and the clouds flowing overhead use about 8000 polygons (of which could be reduced to just 2 with tiled textures, of which wasn't directly possible in 6.31). This doesn't use LOD at all and the level is poorly designed. My video card's drivers aren't updated (and still aren't), and I'm still getting over 20 fps, of which is still bearable (30 fps is the recommended absolute minimum). All this, and only one block is present, of which is invisible. The level needs to be redesigned and combined with LOD, getting 150 fps with the whole level in view is theoretically possible. If only MED would get straighted out and included the two features I despirately need, I could get going on it.

In short, avoid level geometry - it's painfully slow. Plus, model-only levels have near-instant build times (like 1/2 second of actual building). I have more experiments in order to fully process benchmarking tests to greatly optimize the game.


"You level up the fastest and easiest if you do things at your own level and no higher or lower" - useful tip My 2D game - release on Jun 13th; My tutorials
Re: LOD? [Re: ulillillia] #78365
06/19/06 00:26
06/19/06 00:26
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Posts: 857
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Marky Mark Offline OP
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Marky Mark  Offline OP
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All right, I'll try something and post back

edit: By saying models only, can level entity be some of those models?

Last edited by Marky Mark; 06/19/06 00:27.

Yeah! IE sucks, use Mozilla...
Marc Rémillard.
Re: LOD? [Re: Marky Mark] #78366
06/19/06 02:27
06/19/06 02:27
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
ulillillia Offline
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ulillillia  Offline
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Minot, North Dakota, USA
Anything using WED blocks will cause a radical slow down, even map entities that contain any block. Of course, a map entity could contain MDL models. HMP and MDL files have the very fastest of rendering speeds. Plus, they allow for much more flexibility in shape, design, structure, and they are dozens of times faster at rendering. MDL terrains are better than HMP terrains in that they support far more flexibility in shape, sometimes even a faster frame rate (depending on the design). MDL rocks!


"You level up the fastest and easiest if you do things at your own level and no higher or lower" - useful tip My 2D game - release on Jun 13th; My tutorials
Re: LOD? [Re: ulillillia] #78367
06/19/06 18:35
06/19/06 18:35
Joined: Jul 2002
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Marky Mark Offline OP
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Marky Mark  Offline OP
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Ok so my problems should be my roads ? (i'm using simple blocks for the roads and a big block for the ground.




Yeah! IE sucks, use Mozilla...
Marc Rémillard.
Re: LOD? [Re: Marky Mark] #78368
06/19/06 23:29
06/19/06 23:29
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
ulillillia Offline
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ulillillia  Offline
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Anything using blocks causes a big slow down. Blocks render very slowly. If using a big block, the effect is just as bad as several smaller ones. It makes little difference if using simple cubes or octagonal cylinders. As long as it's a block, it'll cause a big slow down. Blocks should only be used for indoor levels, although they can be for any setting. Blocks create portals to help speed things up, but for vast, ourdoor levels, portals have little or no effect. Plus, with a model-only level, the time needed to build the level is practically instantaneous. That whole city level shown in my screenshot, takes but a half second to build, probably not even that. The only slow down is WED - try loading a model with 60,000 faces once and time how long it takes to load. It can take at least a minute. The fix is to build the level up from scripting it and ent_creating the entire level.


"You level up the fastest and easiest if you do things at your own level and no higher or lower" - useful tip My 2D game - release on Jun 13th; My tutorials
Re: LOD? [Re: ulillillia] #78369
06/20/06 00:35
06/20/06 00:35
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 857
Québec
Marky Mark Offline OP
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Marky Mark  Offline OP
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by ent_creating the models, I have to put their coordinates (X Y Z). Maybe it's faster to compile, but it's 20x longer to script!


Yeah! IE sucks, use Mozilla...
Marc Rémillard.
Re: LOD? [Re: Marky Mark] #78370
06/20/06 01:01
06/20/06 01:01
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
ulillillia Offline
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ulillillia  Offline
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Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
Using ent_create doesn't take all that long to script as it is, except to nonscripters. You can use WED to help judge the positions and use some debug system to more convieniently set positions.


"You level up the fastest and easiest if you do things at your own level and no higher or lower" - useful tip My 2D game - release on Jun 13th; My tutorials
Re: LOD? [Re: ulillillia] #78371
06/20/06 02:11
06/20/06 02:11
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 857
Québec
Marky Mark Offline OP
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Marky Mark  Offline OP
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Before doing all of this,I tested something... :

Removed all the blocks to keep only the models. I used a simple "walk through" movement and its still getting fps drops when I look where all the models are. So the models are still the problem I think... Maybe it's my computer? For a hundred low poly models, how many RAM should I have, and what should be my other specs?

Thanks again.


Yeah! IE sucks, use Mozilla...
Marc Rémillard.
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