Quote:


Phemox, why do you twist my arguments ???

My argument was simply:
"The truth about medicine: sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnīt work."




I didn't twist anything, I just said what it would mean in practice.

Quote:


This is a simple observation of REALITY.
Ask your local doctor, if you donīt believe me here.

And please do not invent arguments, that I didnīt make:

I did not say, that - in case of illness - it is better to pray, instead of visiting a doctor.




I was pointing out the effects in reality. You can't prove that praying to your God helps, where modern medicine does help. I didn't twist you argument at all, I just commented on it.

Quote:


Let us please stick to the facts:
We both realise, that there are passages in the Bible, that are unacceptable, that there is the possibility, that someone, who claims to be a prophet isnīt telling the truth ...

For you - at least your arguments seem to imply this - this is reason enough, to question religion as a whole, or even God.

For me it is a simple and logical consequence of the difficult area, that religion deals with. Human beings are not infallible. Therefore it is only natural and logical, that there have been different attempts, opinions, attitudes etc.

And this was the reason, why I brought up the analogy with medicine:
There are also different opinions, attempts, attitudes etc.

But for me this does NOT mean, that I start to loose my basic trust in medicine.




I understand, but I just wondered where your faith is based upon.

Quote:


I mean, this is really something, that should not be denied, and if I simply acknowledge reality, for example, that operations sometimes donīt work, that a diagnosis may be wrong, this does NOT mean, that Iīm an opponent of medicine as a whole.




Off course, but there's no way you can tell íf a prayer can work, where modern medicine has clear results. If modern medicine fails, it's either a wrong diagnose or other human error, lack of knowledge for a 'perfect' treatment or perhaps like I said the person didn't have a chance despite the technological level of modern medicine (aka operating takes time).

Quote:


Now, why did I bring up this analogy?

Because most of your arguments - when it comes to religion - are following this logic: if I can find some mistakes, or different points of view, or a gradual development: The whole system must be wrong and God canīt exist.

But this is obviously a false logical conclusion, because in all areas of human research there is development, people are making mistakes, people try to improve, people have different opinions.




Okey, then it's back to my previous comment about knowing whether or not the praying was wrong, God said 'no, not this time' or if praying even works at all, in other words if there's no visible effect why would there be a God??

Perhaps you believe in 'instant healings' by mediums or something, but I sure do not, especially those with a show are simply frauds... If modern medicine fails it can be explained why it failed and we mostly learn from our mistakes. That whole process of development and knowledge gathering is indeed something that will go by trial and error at times with casualties as result, but it's 100% different from noticing no effects from prayers ... I don't quite understand why you don't get that point.

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software