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That's not a miracle, that's just the effects of masses being influenced throughout time together with the overall ignorance of certain discoveries and knowledge.




Come on, if it would be just a matter of the "inability" of people to resist powerful propaganda: why did people then turn away from communism???

Why did they return - in Russia for example - to religion after the fall of the Soviet Union, where religion was more or less outlawed???

Actually religion has survived countless ideologies, kingdoms, empires - they all disappeared, religion however remains.

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If everybody knew a lot more about evolution, the number of people believing in a religion would clearly be less




So here we are: for you (and creationists) religion stands and falls with the little story in the Christian Bible, that tells us, that God created everything in six days.

Thatīs fine, but you confuse bibliolatry and religion and most religious people have no problems with science.

I like science, a proper understanding of the material world for example, historic research, all of this helps me to understand the whole even better.

And on the other hand, many scientists, who are not simple-minded reductionists realise, that there is a huge complex world outside their specific area of research.

To give you a modern point of view, which I share:

"Science's domain is to explore nature. God's domain is in the spiritual world, a realm not possible to explore with the tools and language of science. It must be examined with the heart, the mind, and the soul - and the mind must find a way to embrace both realms."

the science of belief

This is a quote from a new book, "The Language of God", written by Francis S. Collins, the man who headed the Human Genome Project.

I see it in a similar way: modern science is far more reliable, when it comes to hard facts and especially the exploration of the natural world.

Religion on the other hand deals with often very distant goals, questions of right and wrong, good and evil, human relations ...

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There's no understanding possible when it comes to fictive ideas. [...]
That's definitely the case when it comes to religion, because there's no way in knowing if it's correct!




There is not only one religion and it is very well possible, to believe in certain parts, while rejecting others. And many of the "fictive ideas" turn out to be metaphors, parabels etc., so you donīt have to take them as descriptions of real events.
My impression is, you have been indoctrinated by the fundamentalists here ...

I canīt deliver you a "proof" for God, he isnīt a well defined piece of matter, that can be found and explored under a microscope, I also do not need any miracles and such stuff, so in this sense Iīm a very bad Christian. But I donīt think, that one has to believe in miracles, I think the miracles are there especially for the simple-minded, for children, in order to attract them, so that they too find access to the more spiritual message.

In this sense there is an interesting quote from St. Paul (Korinthians):

3:1 So, brothers and sisters, I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but instead as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.
3:2 I fed you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready. In fact, you are still not ready ...

"I fed you milk, not solid food" - you see, that St. Paul was very aware of the spiritual limitations of his audience.

The Bible certainly "speaks" to very different people and the miracles are for me like the 1st century version of modern-day Special FX. They are there to impress the simple-minded and attract them to the more abstract and difficult parts.

This is probably the difference between our approaches: for me many passages from the Bible simply reflect real conditions, a real audience - maybe not all of them were philosophers, maybe some were little children ... and the preachers had to take this into account.

But there are also other more meaningful parts, which still can tell me a lot and so this does not prevent me anymore from searching and finding the truth, which is in no way limited by and sometimes contradicts the texts from the Bible.

So in my view it is important to discover the Spirit and I donīt say, that it is easy.