If a creator were the easy way out, it would be easier to accept.

Maybe perfect is the wrong word. But.. systems.. such as birth, lifetime and expiration (death in the case of organisms).. they don't occur by chance, nor do they repeat or form elsewhere so similarly, if even once by chance.

Consider the most random event we know of.. lightening strikes. They are the most like random by chance happenings of any natural occurance. Because they are by chance, meaning they only occur given conditions being right.. no two lightening strikes look alike.. are exactly the same temperature.. or occur in the same time/space.

Now.. let's parrallel that to.. what everything else would end up being like.. were it to have all happened by chance.

Starting from the initial bang that sent atoms smashing into eachother, no more than two planets in the whole universe would form close to eachother in appearance or characteristic. Their infinitely diverse stars would make sure of that.

No two stars would be the same or more than remotely similar. No two of us would be close enough to be categorized as the same race. There would not likely be more than two of the same animal species on earth. There could be no such category as "species" because categories require that there be x number of very similar things to one another.


What I am getting at is that the universe does not exist in the infinite diversity that chance would have created. There are caterogizations.. systems.. things form a certain way in this corner of the galaxy, the same as they do in another part equidistant from the core.. and that's why there are categories. There is enough diversity that the universe is not boring, but chance would create infinite possibilities, and the possibilities that do exist as seen in nature.. are not infinite. Great.. yes.. but not nearly infinite.

If they were, there would be no point to naming types of stars or classes of planet, or species of animal. Not only wouldnt there be a point, but no method to it.

The concept of a creator isn't an easy write of.

A God is, most definately. B

ut saying that things form, live, die, and reproduce.. and that vast numbers of stars being characteristically similar to others.. that animal species come about.. and are similar but distinct from others.. saying that the fact there are many planets of a finite, though vast, variety and that there are limits to the diversity of things in nature.. and that that is due to it being a design, wherein these things were first concepted.. planned and then scientifically manifested..

I don't think that's easy at all . It's hard to even believe,... mostly because the anti-theistic among us wont accept their being anything so very far superior ro us anymore than they will accept a God.

But solely based on nature itself being a organism of finite, thou vast, diversity and cyclic birth, life, and death.. characteristics we know to be true of our universe.. which the results of chance would go against.. a certain amount of deliberation has to account for why there are patterns.

Chance creates infinite uniqueness. The conditions that create a chance event when, where, and how it manifests will not occur the same way again. It is only remotely likely that they occur even similarly, according to chance. But we know that stars form very similar (which is why they are grouped into types), even on opposite sides of the galaxy. We know that they have a certain body, wherein conditions are right for their birth. We know that there is patternity to the formation, locality, and longevity of said bodies.

But.. there is no patternity, only likelyhood, to chance.

Yet in our universe, patternity and cycles, commonalities between bodies and between events are abundant. Many things in this universe DO have predictable and common patterns, characteristics and cycles of happening. Many things DO manifest with similarities close enough to be categorized, grouped and studied thusly. Chance would not allow for limited diversity, yet that is what we have so far observed to be (and the one thing we have seen a great lot of is what's thee in the universe.. it why we have enouth data to classify anything at all).

The things in our universe are vast and dynamic, but not infinitely unique. Therefore.. though some chances are allowed to exist, i.e.. uniquenesses such the occurance and nature of lightening.. which in itself isnt truly random.. but needing of conditions (and maybe that too is a part of the desing.. just to keep things a little new and different) cannot have been the fathering element of all things.


Supposing it were, though, chance events require conditions. At the beggining there was only scattered energy and inhoherent atoms. The magnitude of force alone required for formation of everything from a supermassive structure no bigger than a pintip (the way the big bang is said to have happened) suggests that force had to be applied to push all that mass and energy into that one tiny space.. and then contain it.

But if there's nothing around.. no body larger than another to exert gravity greater than that being exerted on it and between all the other atoms.. thus no natural parents to the chain of formations, like what later took place.. then there could be no massive condensing.. and thus no big bang.

That is why I place not only a catalyst.. but a deliberately acting one at the scene.. due again to the strength and energy required to initiate the condensing, and arrange it in such a fashion that pattern, cycle, and mechanism result from it. No such strength, nor the work energy. Could've come from the cold, dispersed atoms and energy photons that were there before they were made into something.

Now.. I would say it is plausible that the one thing that could've happened by chance would have been the birth of the lifeform, credited with the subsequent creation, itself.. given enough atoms were not so distant enough to coalescene.. warm.. and network into something which, by chance, became self aware.

But it still would've had to have been a truly unique organism to even support so much information. Very different from anything carbon based.

Maybe at one point, again.. enough atoms were close enough to smidge together, and conduct and domino into a sentient network of atom and energy.. which became self aware in thr process. This being a true chance occurance in that it needed only conditions to be right, and it being a unique occurance, much like lightening.

So far there's been nothing remotely like it to form again, capable of retention, let alone application of so much knowledge from no more than dust and incoherent atoms of nothing in particular. So I would classify that as a truel chance event.

Now.. why is it possible for one single solitary lifeform to have formed by chance.. and not the rest of the universe..? Well besides the above reasons..

One unique, original.. by chance under minimal conditions.. lifeform is alot lower on the complexity scale than a superorganism such as the universe. It would take alot less matter, alot less energy.. and therefore had alot less tough conditions for formation by chance.

Chance makes believable sense as to his/hers/it's random coming into being.
Other than that though, nature is vastly diverse but finite. While the products of chance are infinitely diverse, and not as predictable or categorical as most things in nature, given the right know how, are.

That being why, on the whole, we are not the products of chance .

Last edited by ICEman; 10/05/07 23:16.

I'm ICEman, and I approved this message.