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Your claim is that the Bible teaches that God is three distinct personalities, i.e. the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

In the Old Testament, God's name is mentioned often. It is YHWH. This has been translated as LORD in most English Bibles. However, it is not a title, it is a name...


Yes, whenever you see LORD in caps in the Old Testament, it is YHWH which in Hebrew is "I Am" which is the covenant name for God between God and Israel (the Jews), but even in the Old Testament God has many names.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.cfm

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But certainly the Bible also teaches that Jesus (a man) was God, right?

Job 25:2-6 "Dominion and fear are with God; he makes peace in his high heaven. Is there any number to his armies? Upon whom does his light not arise? How then can man be righteous before God? How can he who is born of woman be clean? Behold, even the moon is not bright and the stars are not clean in his sight; how much less man, who is a maggot, and the son of man, who is a worm!"

Numbers 23:19 God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfil it?


This is referring to men who are born of man and woman, not Jesus who was born of a woman and conceived of the Holy Spirit.

Genesis 3
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;

This is the very first Messianic prophecy in the Old Testament. God is telling the serpent (Satan) that He is going to put enmity between him and the Seed of the woman. The seed usually comes through the man, so this is not going to be an ordinary man who is to be born.

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Was Jesus really claiming to be the same being as this YHWH?

John 8:28-30 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority but speak thus as the Father taught me. And he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to him." As he spoke thus, many believed in him.

John 8:42-43 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say?


Yes, Jesus was really claiming to be YHWH. Again Jesus is pointing to the Father (YHWH) and saying that He is sent by the Father and the things He does are of the Father. These very verses that you just quoted clearly show that Jesus is saying that He and the Father are one, that Jesus is equal to the Father, and that Jesus is God.


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Yes, you can assume that Jesus' was hinting, and making suggestions that he was God. However, it's obvious to see that he was denying such an idea. The fact is that some of these verses have to be interpreted figuratively, in order to understand them.

Either the YHWH of the Old Testament was speaking figuratively, or Jesus was speaking figuratively. Without the understanding that parts of the Bible are meant to be figurative, it will not make sense at all.

Who do you suppose was speaking figuratively, YHWH or Jesus?

John 16:25
These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs (figuratively): but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs (figuratively), but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

The time will come when Jesus will speak plainly about WHO? About the Father. About God, about YHWH.


I am not assuming anything. I know exactly Whom Jesus is refering to and I believe Him. smile Jesus was not just hinting or suggesting that He is God. The Jewish leaders knew exactly what He was saying. Most of them did not believe Him because they did not know or believe the scriptures as Jesus told them on more than one occasion. That is why they wanted to stone Him. These verses do not need to be and should not be interpreted figuratively to understand them. In fact they should be interpreted literally as YHWH/Jesus means them to be. Yes, sometimes Jesus spoke figuratively. He knows who will and will not believe Him. Jesus said, I am the bread of life. Did He mean He is literally bread? No, He is using the physical to describe the spiritual. Just as we need food for physical life, we need Jesus/God for eternal life. Jesus said, I am the door. Does that mean He is a door? No, He means He is the door (way) to eternal life.

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John16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.


John 14:7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

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About the plural 'We' used in the Old Testament is a well known issue to anyone who understands the Semetic languages. There is a plural of number, and there is a plural of respect. Even old English uses this, like when the Queen says "We are not amused!"


I have heard this before too and it does not wash. God does not need to use plural words like Eloheim (God), echad (one), We or Us to gain respect. He is God. That's enough. The bible is the word of God and is God breathed, meaning the Holy Spirit filled the prophets so they knew what to write. Either you believe that or you do not. It is as simple as that.


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Mark 12:29-30 Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.'


Yes, Jesus wants us to put God first and worship Him alone. Jesus is God.


Last edited by smitty; 12/17/08 21:16.