Give me ONE proof for the existance of your god. Then let's talk again smile

Your god doesn't exist. There is no proof for it. But a ton of proofs speaks against it. Which means your god is disproven.

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I never said I was against science. Science is good, and can be used for good purposes. However science can also be used for bad purposes. A scientist could use his knowledge to make horrible weapons, to kill people. Does this mean science is bad, or that the scientist is bad?


How comes that religious people always think of horrible weapons and killing when it comes to science? Violent people it seems smile

As told, either you accept science and what science finds out. Then you have to accept that the world is a bit older than a few thousand years and NOT made by a god.

Or you don't accept science, tell the people the world is just a few thousand years old, there is a big uncle sitting at a cloud up there, playing nonsense with our souls.

In that case please never go to a doctor anymore. Because it is the same science, the same scientic methods. For both. Archaeology and medicine. And for all the rest of science.

You cannot accept the parts you like and discard the ones that you dislike. An apple will not fall upwards just because you claim to have a god that inverts the gravity.

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Religious people generally are those who look at the world and see it as a thing of beauty


Ah, and the rest is blind, right? I see wink

What makes YOU think that YOUR world sight is the better one? What gives YOU the right to decide what is beauty and what i am allowed to see? What gives you and your religious leaders the righ to tell me what i have tho think?

You don't have that right.

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Religious people generally are those who look at the world and see it as a thing of beauty, and have a feeling that there is a very powerful force which must have created all this. When they read or hear about God, they connect this feeling with what they have read, and they believe in it.


Feelings? You feel a powerful force? That is where science comes in handy. It can proof if your theory of a powerful force is right or wrong. And science did. It hasn't found any proof for your told force. There is none. Your feeling was imagination. They found other forces instead. And they found lots of stuff that disproofs big parts of the bible. Science has disproven your theory.

Religion claims to have the only truth. Religion relys at so called holy books. But these holy books are disproven. Which brings us into a dilemma: your only truth cannot be true when the book at which it relys is disproven.

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Yes, there are bad people out there who claim to believe in God, and they do all sorts of bad things in order to force other people to accept their religion. This is a sad fact, and it is not the intent of most religions, but people do it anyway. Can you blame the religion for the actions of some people who clearly ignore it's teachings?


You still haven't understood the concept of your own religion, have you? It is a tartar concept. It is an ancient concept. With a king at the top. Non-democratic. Violent. Pushy. Dangerous. Religion just exists to control people. They promise you a so called paradise when you do what they want. They tell you you will burn in a hell when you don't. And with that promise and with that fear in front of your eyes you dance for their melody. That's the concept: control.

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Let's assume you're right about Iran, that it is a place where people are forced into a particular religion. Are the actions of these people their own responsibility, or is it the religion's fault?


See above. Religion just exists to control people. No big difference if the tartar is a muslimic leader or a christian priest. They both pray fear and perdition. It's just that in the western world the religious leaders have lost the control over law. Not longer the word of a god is equal the law in a country. Means they are not longer allowed to torture or to kill different-minded people. Well, at least not officially. But they found other methods meanwhile. Creationism and intelligent Design is one example.
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The Quran clearly states:
"There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower." (2:256)

No compulsion means no one should be forced to believe in anything. We can't be forced to believe in something, believing is a matter of the mind, not the body. Forcing someone would only make them hate that religion more, even if they choose to lie and say they believe.


No compulsion, eh? Please. What would you call "and when you don't do what we want you will end in a place called hell" then? And that is not the only terror.

When you don't believe whan we tell you we will cut off your balls, give it you to eat, slit your wrist and hang you up on your bowels. But please don't see it as compulsion. You have the choice ... laugh

Religion makes unfree.

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Sadly, many religious authorities have not paid heed to this command. But as I mentioned before, it is not only religious authorities who do bad things to people. Hitler did bad things in the name of National Socialism, Stalin did bad things in the name of Communism, early Americans did bad things to the natives in the name of 'Manifest Destiny', the list goes on and on. It's a problem of humans getting greedy, not of religion.


Now that is nice. Just because there are worse people than religious leaders means religion is good now? Err, that doesn't fit to your heaven/hell, your black/white concept. And doesn't fit anyways. Because we talk about religion at the moment, and not about Hitler.

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Also, there are scientists who claim that due to the complexity of the cell, it's so unlikely that life could have emerged by chance, that the idea of a designer is plausible. It is an idea, which like any scientific hypothesis, requires study and research. The Big Bang is an idea, we don't know for sure exactly how or what happened. We cannot yet prove that it happened, or how it happened, yet it is taught in science classes.


No real scientist will ever say something like that. Very likely that you have read such things at one of the faked scientic looking creationism pages. There is nearly no chance to read an article from a real scientist nowadays, this much of this fake pages exists. Lies. A flood of lies.

That's the whole point. Everytime i have to do with religion i have to do with fake and lies. The whole concept is built on top of that lies. And i have to do with a special kind of slavery. But that is another story.



Last edited by Tiles; 01/01/09 09:14.

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