Give me ONE proof for the existance of your god. Then let's talk again
I feel bad that I have to tell you this. It's as if you haven't read anything I've written.
I've said it before, but I will explain again. I don't think you can prove God's existence. However, I think there are things in the universe which point to a God, or designer being there. One of them is the complexity of life, one of them is the order and harmony in nature, like cycles of day and night, the exact timing of the sun and moon, the way water evaporates from the sea, and falls as rain on the land. These are not 'proof' of God, but they indicate His existence to me (and many other people).
Your god doesn't exist. There is no proof for it. But a ton of proofs speaks against it. Which means your god is disproven.
Please provide one proof that God does not exist...
As told, either you accept science and what science finds out. Then you have to accept that the world is a bit older than a few thousand years and NOT made by a god.
Or you don't accept science, tell the people the world is just a few thousand years old, there is a big uncle sitting at a cloud up there, playing nonsense with our souls.
I agree. The Bible is full of nonsense which is disproven. That's why I'm not a Christian.
In that case please never go to a doctor anymore. Because it is the same science, the same scientific methods. For both. Archaeology and medicine. And for all the rest of science.
You cannot accept the parts you like and discard the ones that you dislike. An apple will not fall upwards just because you claim to have a god that inverts the gravity.
Your right. Science teaches us facts about the world. I don't reject any of them. So far I have not found anything in the Quran which contradicts science.
If you're talking about miracles, that's a different story. There is more than one way to understand miracles. One is that since God created the laws of the universe, He is also able to suspend them whenever He wills. Another is that the miracles which are mentioned, are actually events which occurred within the regular laws of physics. The miraculous part is that they happened exactly when they were needed, i.e. God arranged these events to happen in advance.
Let me give you an example:
In the Quran, there's a story of the prophet Jonah, who is washed up on an island after his unfortunate encounter with the whale. The Quran mentions that God caused a tree to grow over him. Many Muslims view this as a miracle, i.e. a tree just suddenly grew very quickly over the prophet. However, another way to look at it is that God just made sure a seed would land in that spot, 20 years earlier, so that a tree would be there to protect the unconscious prophet from the elements.
Religious people generally are those who look at the world and see it as a thing of beauty
Ah, and the rest is blind, right? I see
What makes YOU think that YOUR world sight is the better one? What gives YOU the right to decide what is beauty and what i am allowed to see? What gives you and your religious leaders the right to tell me what i have tho think?
You don't have that right.
No I don't, nor did I ever say that I do. Why must you insist on accusing me of things which I never did? I am not the Pope!
Feelings? You feel a powerful force? That is where science comes in handy. It can proof if your theory of a powerful force is right or wrong. And science did. It hasn't found any proof for your told force. There is none. Your feeling was imagination. They found other forces instead. And they found lots of stuff that disproofs big parts of the bible. Science has disproven your theory.
Religion claims to have the only truth. Religion relys at so called holy books. But these holy books are disproven. Which brings us into a dilemma: your only truth cannot be true when the book at which it relys is disproven.
Two things: The Bible, I agree is disproven, at least it isn't 'ALL' true. I do believe that parts of it are true, but that much of it is just written by humans.
As for feelings, what are they for? Don't tell me you never acted on a feeling. You eat food, right? Do you go to the lab and have x-rays done on your stomach, to make sure you're really hungry before you eat?
The point is that feelings can tell us things that are just as important as science. Can you prove that your friend actually likes you? Did you make him take a lie detector test? How can you know for sure that your friend is not secretly your enemy, and he's just waiting for the right moment to cheat you?
You still haven't understood the concept of your own religion, have you? It is a tartar concept. It is an ancient concept. With a king at the top. Non-democratic. Violent. Pushy. Dangerous. Religion just exists to control people. They promise you a so called paradise when you do what they want. They tell you you will burn in a hell when you don't. And with that promise and with that fear in front of your eyes you dance for their melody. That's the concept: control.
You have not read anything about Islamic government. First of all, the Quran does not specify what type of government Muslims should have, but it does make it clear that decisions should be made by mutual consultation, in Arabic 'shura'. This is similar to an election or vote, but keeps the final decision with the leader. The point is, the leader is supposed o be listening and understanding the people, it's not just a one way street.
The very early Islamic leaders were chosen by the people closest to the Prophet Muhammad. He also laid out some guidelines as to how leaders should behave. A person in a position of leadership will be in chains on the Day of Judgment. This means that they are responsible for the actions of the government, and they would be punished more harshly by God if they abuse their power.
He told us that obedience (to government) is only required in virtuous things. Also, that the best person is the one who stands up against a tyrant (evil king).
For several generations, Muslims followed these basic rules of government, leaders were elected or appointed based on good character, rather than family lineage or wealth. However it wasn't long before greed took over, and a monarchy was set up, where the leadership was passed to the previous leaders heirs.
However, you can't blame the religion for this, it's going against the religion.
No compulsion, eh? Please. What would you call "and when you don't do what we want you will end in a place called hell" then? And that is not the only terror.
Everyone has the right to accept or reject this. I can't treat you badly, just because you don't believe in God.
When you don't believe whan we tell you we will cut off your balls, give it you to eat, slit your wrist and hang you up on your bowels. But please don't see it as compulsion. You have the choice ...
Religion makes unfree.
I think you have me confused with the Pope again. Things like the Spanish Inquisition did not happen in the Muslim world. The Quran itself commands that there be no compulsion.
Now that is nice. Just because there are worse people than religious leaders means religion is good now? Err, that doesn't fit to your heaven/hell, your black/white concept. And doesn't fit anyways. Because we talk about religion at the moment, and not about Hitler.
You missed the point. I am not arguing that religion is good 'because' some non-religious people are bad. I am arguing against your statement that religion makes people do bad things. I think some people do bad things, whether for religion or nationalism or whatever excuse they make. It's not the religion that's the cause, it's the people.
Even if you wiped out all religions from the world, and nobody could even remember anything about them, you will still have some people getting greedy and killing people in the name of some other concept... maybe science
Also, there are scientists who claim that due to the complexity of the cell, it's so unlikely that life could have emerged by chance,
No real scientist will ever say something like that. Very likely that you have read such things at one of the faked scientic looking creationism pages. There is nearly no chance to read an article from a real scientist nowadays, this much of this fake pages exists. Lies. A flood of lies.
There are 'creationists' who claim to be scientists. I understand that. They are trying to skew science to fit the Bible. This is wrong. However, there are also 'scientists' who reject creationism, but accept the idea of a designer, at least as one possible explanation.
Tiles, I'm not trying to force you or anyone to believe what I do. I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with religious people. I hope I am not one of the people who turned you away from religion.
I'm just trying to explain this topic the way I see it. If you believe in democracy, like you said, it should not hurt to hear someones opinion.
