Quote:

math is full of proofs.


The foundations of Math , in particula geometry , are the " postulates "
This term derive from the latin verb for " to ask "
You are asked to accept some initial assumptions

It does not make sense to wonder whether these assumptions are true or false
same as you would not ask why the bishop in the game of chess can move only along the diagonals

When a mathematician claims that a theorem is true he actually means that it is consistent with the initial assumptions i.e. with the rules of the game

Physics, chemestry, bio etc on the contrary are based on real facts


Quote:
Right. I understand what you are trying to define what a vacuum is, I can agree with that definition, however I am not understanding how you are connecting the Hesienberg uncertainty principle with some sort of proof that a vacuum cannot exist. Perhaps you can recommend a book, what book is the original source of your idea?


Well, it was not, of course, a personal interpretation .
Quantum mechanics has completely revised our " common sense " or " intuitive " concept of space and vacuum

A common misinterpretation of the Heisemberg's principle is the following

Many people assume that it is strictly " measuring " related
In other words
If you try to measure the position \ speed of a particle than you disturb the system, consequently the original position \ speed gets lost for ever

If so, it would be a trivial claim

The indetermination is alwayes valid regardless of the presence of an observer

Consider a box of volume V
You scan the box in a period of time T
You find that inside the box there is a particle

You reduce and reduce V and T
You may expect to find , sooner or later ,an empty box
On the contrary the box remains alwayes full but the uncertainity about its speed increases since the uncertainity about its position decreases

The consequences are drammatic

In an atom, the space between the nucleus and the electrons should not be empty
This has been proved beyond any reasonable doubt
The orbit of the electrons can be exactly calculated assuming that they collide with some " virtual " particles along their path

Let's come to the " common sense " issue

The point is that you speak of " particle " same as it were a real entity

Atomic physics use terms such as "particle" or "waves "to describe the atomic world due to the fact that human beings can reason only by analogies
However it is a mistake to assume that a proton or an elctron or a virtual particle is really a particle ( or a wave )
Actualy we dont know what these entities are , being beyond our experience

For this reason you must beware of the so called " coomon sense " rather you must accept the result of the experiments even though they are not intuitive

Finally , you may read the " Elegant universe " by Brian Green
It is focused on the string theory ( an umproven theory ) but the authors explains also in detail, the Heisemberg's principle









Last edited by AlbertoT; 01/05/09 12:45.