Originally Posted By: bupaje
Some of those who strapped bombs to themselves may have been affected by religious fervor but not all - not even most. Many received payments to their families in what seems a hopeless situation and many desired revenge for the deaths being inflicted upon them. [..] What would your state of mind be? I can see life feeling like torture, being depressed and hopeless and wanting to kill myself - offered an excuse to view that suicide as an act of bravery or martyrdom instead I might take it. If religion did not provide that excuse then I could accept another.


You're slightly missing the point. People are simply vulnerable in such situations. Very much like people in Birma are accepting some western strangers preaching for as long as they're taken care of with medicine and so on, it's the same thing but more positive. A person in need will do whatever it takes and a lot of people take advantage of that, whether to associate a certain belief with medicine or care or a suicide bomber getting money doesn't really matter.

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Many see the foreign forces as no different than the imperial powers that once subjugated them. Ask yourself what would be the reaction of the youth you know in the Netherlands or the USA if your country held hostile forces all around, if tanks moved down your main streets, if bombs and bullets killed your family and friends.


I would feel angry for sure, but at the same time this is why Israeli forces shouldn't be in Gaza and why coalition forces should never have been in Iraq or even Afghanistan. I don't think these wars really solve anything, and in case of Israel we all have known this for years.

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I've worked in the church and I see generosity of spirit and sincere concern for others.


I agree, but at the same time it's very much a matter of perspective. The rich helping out the not-so rich, in the end no one is going to change the world. Perhaps I'm pessimistic.

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Or does government and science and logic without religion result in some type of Utopian state? History shows it does not. The flaw is in us, not in religion.


I don't believe a Utopian state is possible, we're long passed that opportunity. But in my opinion it has nothing to do with humans being flawed or even religion, but the mere fact that inequality is necessary for progress in the broadest sense possible. You know, I totally support donations and what not to 3rd world countries, but truth is we basically need them in the state they are now. Every healthy country means more competition on the global market.

Our world as it is, is based around an extremely selfish system, prosperity just isn't something you can share with this many people. Averaging everything out to a single standard will definitely mean progress will stop and might even cause very practical issues. Truth is we as a species have already been overpopulating for far too long.

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It may be convenient to use religion as a scape goat to blame all the ills of the world but that to me is illogical, unreasonable, an avoidance of the truth and our individual responsibility.


No, that would be too easy, but I still think many issues are directly caused by religion. You are totally right about the individual responsibility, however many people just seem to easily fall for religious stories. Apparently it's a very effective tool to bypass individual responsibility on a psychological level. A group is stronger, individuality matters less and suddenly certain actions or ideas seem justified.

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And the try to teach creationism and intelligent design instead science. Again religion tries to control knowledge, tries to get the control over people back. Very noble ...


I agree. Many religions seem to feel vulnerable when it comes to science, so they seek ways to protect their interests. It may sound like a conspiracy, but it's not...

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