we can keep going back and forth here, but we dont seem to be getting too far. the way it looks, we are pretty divided. everyone knows where i stand, and we all have to be willing to work on the project even if it was not our choice of projects. thats going to be the key to it, actual commitment. so, lets ask George what he thinks, and let's move ahead. i think if we look at what each of us has to offer, then decide on how our workflow should go, we should be able to knock this out in no time with minimal effort. the reality is, it's not all about AAA graphics or competing with other games, its about fun and showing 3D Gamestudios ability to make a fun game that could be commercial quality, isn't it? with the tools and the talent, we can make some great games here. look at what realspawn and spike was able to do, not to mention the great David Lancaster and mp_developer with preva, and a host of others, here is our chance!