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So we take for granted that all the sinners and atheists like me are gonna burn



That's a rather pessimistic way of looking at it, isn't it?

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I believe it was Irish himself who said nothing comes from nothing. Everyhting must have cause. So...

What's the cause? I mean even ignoring the conundrum that soemthing ALLKNOWING and ALLPOWERFUL would bother creating a universe, and time and all that when they already would automatically know how it would end...



You're missing one important distinction. Everything within our physical universe must have a cause. Its only true, because we observe it to be true WITHIN our universe. You're talking about God, who is outside of cause. We can't possibly ask to comprehend God, I'm sorry if that offends you. However, we can ask perhaps a more important question. What is there, if there is no creator? I don't see why my idea looks more unreasonable, although I know why you find it so unreasonable.

How did nothing create the universe? Is this beyond my comprehension? Should I just take it on faith? You can't possibly hope to destroy my belief without making yours look ridiculous in the process.

God, in his infinite wisdom made it possible to understand His power through His creation, without overwhelming us with His entirety. What we cannot understand about Him is unimportant, what's important is what we CAN understand about Him through his creation. And that's something that's readily apparent for anyone to see, if they want to.

More importantly, its something that's outside of time. Before we even knew about space, we could grasp God's power through what we knew about just the earth. Then, when we discover space we can STILL grasp God's power through the additional knowledge. This isn't something that changes the more we know. If anything, it just becomes easier to see as time goes on.

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is there this big all-powerful bearded guy sitting in infinite darkness?



According to you? That just begs the question. What makes you think He is?

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Don't throw this 'you can't possibly comprehend' cra at me either, you know very well that this question is unanswerable.



I'm not going to bother answering an irrelevant question. I don't think he is living in some dark room outside our universe.

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Theres nothing to comprehend.



Apparently there is, because here we are able to comprehend it. Able to wonder why a universe could possibly exist with no cause. Sounds like a rather strange thing for a 'random collection of chemicals' to be able to do.

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AND if he was created, what is the nature of his creator? WHy did it choose to create such a boring environment for its glowing child?



You're going to have to translate this for me. I've never heard anyone refer to a glowing child before. And what boring environment is this?

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How can there be a time before the universe if time does not exist?



How can time sprout from non-time? Furthermore, what does it matter. Obviously God wouldn't be influenced by time.

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(no offense but from lurking in ever yother topic it seems all you say is 'you're wrong, read the bible'



No one has said this once. But its pretty apparent that you're reading these words through a pretty heavy filter, otherwise you wouldn't think that.

Evolutionists are the ones who can't get off the topic of religion, I've been trying to keep it on science as much as possible.

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at least my side is trying to be original every now and then EX: this thread)



These same spiteful, fallacious arguments have been brought up for years. You're not doing anything new here. No one is.



I'll pray for you, because I think your anger has been a wide open door through which Satan entered and decided to play fiddle with your mind. Its the most I can do as a meager sinner (I'm in the same boat as you, buddy). But in the end, whatever happens has nothing to do with me. I've probably misrepresented myself many times on this forum. And I've probably not been a perfect representative of Jesus like I should be.

And I'm not trying to offend you by saying this, because I know you have real reasons for believing what you believe and I wouldn't marginalize those reasons. However, its plain to see that your post was meant as an attack (there are ways of saying this nicely), and to me it seemed rather angry. So you'll have to forgive me if my worldview picks up on this.

Its amazing that we even have to discuss this, though. We call ourselves enlightened and say that we've figured out a way to disprove God, without whom the universe wouldn't even exist.

You sit here and focus on the anger, and wrath of God (you sound like the fire and brimstone mongerers that christians are always portrayed to be). You forget the Love and Mercy that God has offered us, to allow us to inherit what He has made rightfully ours. It isn't natural to go to hell. Its not God's plan for atheists, its the atheist's plan for him/herself.

If I build an electric fence and then put it next to paradise to keep the paradise from being corrupted by outside influences, and someone in paradise keeps choosing to run into the electric fence, would it make sense for them to put the blame on me? I didn't create the electric fence for that person, I created paradise for that person. They chose to suffer.

In that way, hell was meant for Satan. If people choose to follow him there, whatever excuses and faulty logic they choose to pave that road with, its still their choice.


By the way, don't get too hung up on your age. I'm still a teenager too. Well, not for long.

This should be a good splinter topic.

Last edited by Irish_Farmer; 06/01/06 05:10.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."