Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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I love how you set yourself up here as somehow better than others. Like you aren't blindly obedient to your sinful nature, or blindly obedient to the world's philosophy. Blindly obedient to the psychological barriers you've erected to keep God out.
What you've said here is just a way for you to self-reaffirm your own beliefs. How do you know you're not wrong? How do you know your philosophy and worldview are holding you back? In fact, according to you you're not more right than anyone else, so that means if you believe anything about anything, you're stuck in group-think, and you're blindly obedient to your beliefs.
You think I do not know it better because you apparently do not think that evidence is required before believing ANYTHING. Well, that's fine for you, but that's simply not the way my mind works. Off course this makes my own believe superior to yours in MY opinion, why would I deny thinking I'm more right than you are? At least I've got good reasons for it ...
Well I didn't expected you to come with those 'psychological barriers to keep god out' kind of arguments, but I couldn't care less, since I could blame you of exactly the same thing. Infact, you still haven't told me why you believe in God, except your statement that you believe the bible to be true, but what kind of reasoning is that? Believing a story is hardly enough to justify the believe in a God.
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Nope, the average atheist doesn't believe in God, as the namesake implies. Churches don't spend time talking about atheists. They warn about letting things like death metal influence your mind. But that's all.
Yes, and another indication that they don't have a clue about death metal in the first place, just like christianity trying to prohibit the use of condoms in Africa. If they would have a better understanding of things, they wouldn't make themselves this ridiculous all the time.
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You seem to think God requires something magical from us. Like we need to immediately give up on living our lives, and become something...else. You don't suddenly not care to understand anything. You don't stop searching for truth, in fact the truth then becomes more clear because you have a direction, instead of wondering wherever your mind takes you. You're starting from the source of ultimate truth.
Mmm, when you keep telling yourself that you can know things you can not know, then how could things get more clear when it comes to truth?
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I won't get into all of the religions, but the bible is full of prophecies that came true, wisdom that anyone can access, and a no-nonsense doctrine. What do you think God will say when He finds people have ignored the obvious signs He's left for everyone?
Which prophecies came true, and exactly which hints? There are to many questions to say the least surrounding the bible itself, so it's hardly possible to see it as direct evidence for anything. e.g. There is no evidence for a worldwide flood rather exactly the opposite, 'judgement day' hasn't come yet either, the world still exists.
The vague prophecies that you must mean, like the socalled prophecy of world war II in the bible is so vague it could have meant anything. But please do come with examples, if there are more convincing or clear ones. 
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Well, by definition this non-physical being created the universe. So influencing the physical wouldn't be that difficult.
Way to go, that's like saying, the color green is green, simply because we defined it as green, so it must be green. It still doesn't prove that it's actually green in reality though.
Yes, the very same definition of God that is required for Him to even be possible to exist, since it gives Him a artificial purpose, and guess what, that was invented by humans too. One of the main errors in the bible. It's not 'we know' or 'we think' 'God is blablabla', but it says 'God is blablabla', that's even worse than stating 'we know ... ', where off course we couldn't possibly know and that's exactly where the bible gives it away!
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No it can't because without God the universe doesn't exist. I defy you to come up with a logical explanation for the existence of the universe that excludes a supernatural creator.
You must have meant without God the universe might not exist, not "doesn't exist". Again, this clearly shows YOUR arrogance.  Anyways, that's quite irrelevant, but just because you see God as a requirement for the existence of the universe, doesn't mean he actually is. There are plenty of ways the universe could have come into existence, with or without a creator. I don't think the Christian concept of God is THE most logical explanation for the existence of the universe. Infact, what makes it even logical according to you? I don't think creation of the earth is possible in those 6 or 7 days, especially not if literally meant.
I can't see or feel God, but maybe that's because he is gone now? If he's gone now, then what guarantee is there that he even once was around? I can't discover evidence of God's activities in the past, but maybe that's because his traces are very life itself? Considering evolution and the like, that for starters would contradict the biblical creation. If that's true then that still doesn't really provide anything that could answer the question wether or not his existence would make more sense than his none-existence would, which logically renders him totally irrelevant. ('+1-1=0') I don't see any evidence of divine interference either, maybe that's because there isn't any? Can I even trust the bible with all this knowledge, since they more or less claim to know what can't be known or seen, they specifically claim that 'God helped' more than once...
I find parting the seas and walking the water very fascinating to read about, but is it strange to demand some evidence before believing it as fact? I'm fascinating about superheroes that can fly too, wouldn't it be amazing if a human could fly like superman? Well, we all know we can't do that, so why believe in 'walking on the water' and changing 'water to wine'? Okey, I'll stop talking about some of the personal arguments against the possibility of a creator, I know you might think I'm far off from your question at the moment, but look at it like this, is there one reason why a creator would actually really make sense? I think a creator get's excluded automatically when you approach the question with pure logic. How did or more important how could the creator come into existence? If you think the universe requires a creator, then so must the creator require one for the exact same reason. So you tell me, what makes more sense?
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Everyone is a witness to the creation so they're without excuse. [Romans 1:20]
What creation? I can claim these kind of things too. I could say the flying spaghetti monster made the mountains, since we can all see there are mountains, still we haven't witnissed any creation at all.
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Again, this is a claim without any reasoning. Tell me why you believe we can't know God exists?
I've already told you why we can.
Exactly where did you tell me? I've already explained why it doesn't automatically makes sense, infact the opposite makes more sense, and not because I want to be more right than you, but because of proper reasoning, not by fantasizing about what might be. How can we possibly know God's existence? It's obvious that we can't know, since we haven't seen him or met him, or are able to notice him, there is no evidence pointing in his direction either, so what's the reason for being stubborn and think to know he exists still?
Again, h o w could we even know this ...
Cheers
Last edited by PHeMoX; 07/11/06 00:37.
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