Quote:

You still believe in absolutes and nothing but these non-existing absolutes.



I'll stop believing in absolutes when someone gives me a logical reason not to believe in absolutes. Of course, giving a logical reason to believe in relativism is kind of contradictory.

Quote:

I doubt you will ever find out the true meaning of relativism,



I apparently have a better grasp than the other relativists who consistently contradict their own theory, or say its based on 'social preferences' when its not defined that way.

Quote:

since according to you everything is either A or B and nothing in between or outside these two is possible



I didn't say EVERYTHING was. Can you guys go one post without putting words into my mouth? I just said that NOT EVERYTHING is relative.

Quote:

eventhough there are infact an infinite amount of possibilities...



Yes, an infinite ways to disagree proves that people disagree. Please explain to me how us disagreeing proves there are no absolutes. Explain how it proves anything except that we disagree.

Quote:

What's not consistent with our theory? It's not our view and our theory that have any inconsistencies, it's your view and our theory that collide, that's something totally different.



What you mean to say is that logic and your theory collide. I'm not even refuting relativism yet. I'm just trying to get you guys to stop fence sitting.

Quote:

What's not consistent with our theory? It's not our view and our theory that have any inconsistencies



Would you not agree that your theory states that no one is right, and that absolute truth does not exist (except as an illusion to people or groups)?

Assuming for the moment that you agree, you then have two choices. You can either be a relativist, and say that even though you think Hitler was wrong, he technically was not wrong, slavery technically was not wrong even if you believe it is.

Or you can admit that you do believe absolutes. In this case that slavery really was wrong, even if we thought it was right at one point, and that Hitler was wrong, even if German society at the time thought he was right.

You can't have it both ways. You can believe he's wrong, but according to your own theory, your view is relative, and he technically wasn't wrong. You have to admit that, or you have to call relativism bunk.

Quote:

Not that you would understand... but there's a lot of relativism in the bible you know ...



That's the weakest, most inane argument for relativism I've ever heard. But it does back up my theory that, for some people, relativism is a guise to establish a moral vacuum for people who don't like other's absolute morals. You can't logically establish relativism, but if you can attack those who believe in absolutes and make them seem wrong, then that's all the justification you need.

Quote:

We are not anti-christian at all,



Please read what I wrote. A lot of atheists are anti-christian. I didn't say all atheists, and I didn't say most atheists. Just a lot.

That's not stereotyping, its just recognizing a truth about some atheists.

In fact, the point of that statement was to refute that I was generalizing. Someone put words in my mouth, saying I thought relativists were christian opponents. I was trying to say that I don't think that's true.

I think most of them are just mislead.

Quote:

I even dare to state that we know the christian views or most of them are in error.



Eh, the alchemists were pretty certain they could turn lead into gold....

Quote:

Again, show me one piece of evidence that God exists, proof to me that all science is wrong, proof to me that God has influence at all and is able to help in any way whatsoever, and then I'm talking about being able to do more than just be a 'invisible ear' when talking to yourself again ...



Since you bring God into a discussion on relativism would I be mistaken in believing that you simply cannot justify absolute truth, as long as you're sure there is no God? What kind of foundation is that for a theory? If you can't seperate relativism from your judgment on the validity of the existence of God, then it might seem you don't believe in relativism for the right reasons. You believe it because you have to.

I don't want to be too forceful here, because that can lead to flaming and emotional arguments, but I hope some people see what I'm saying.

What God does in your life is personal. I can't prove God to you, because there are an infinite number of ways to rationalize Him out of existence. Even the most miraculous of comprehendable miracles will never prove He exists.

If you think that you need 'help', Jesus said, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." [Matthew 11:28] There is only one way to God, and that is through Jesus. [John 14:6] Just call upon him with sincerety. If you ask for salvation, God won't ignore you.

Anyway, I didn't want to distract the topic. Just thought I would answer your question slightly. In the meantime, I'll be more than happy to stay on subject. We have other threads to discuss validity of believing in God.

Last edited by Irish_Farmer; 06/24/06 05:02.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."