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I tend to agree with you here Irish, relativism can't be absolute, hence the word relativism off course ..

It's also useless to call relativism's existence absolute, since it isn't, it's one of the most dynamic things in the god blessed world.



But if it relativism isn't absolute, then what good is it? The opposite of relativism is absolutism. So if relativism isn't absolutely true, then why isn't absolutism absolutely true?

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These are bizarre extremes, why should something be absolute simply when it's valid? I don't see why this should be.



You'll have to explain to me why this is extreme. The way I see it, I've broken the argument down to its most basic components of logic. And having thus done that, I think I've exposed the weakness of your philosophy. You believe nothing is absolutely true, except that its absolutely true that nothing is absolutely true. But if that's absolutely true, then relativism is false as I've said many times before. If you want to argue that relativism isn't absolutely true, then you'll have a hard time making the argument that its true.

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Relativism implies 'it can/could/will change', how can it be absolute then?



No, 'truth' can change even in the absolutist position. The difference is relativists will see the change and say, "Neither position is more right than the other." Absolutists will say, "This position is true while the other is false."

That would be the difference.

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Give me an example of something relative that's absolute ... trust me, you won't find any.



What we're dealing with here is truth. I could come up with many examples of relative perceptions of absolute truths, but it wouldn't really get us anywhere.

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Infact, I'd even dare to say there are no absolutes, not even just the 'being' of things is absolute.



From the perspective of truth, there are. I can't exist and not exist at the same time.

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Not even time is absolute. Not even our universe is absolute.



What about time and the universe is relative? Does the universe not exist?

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Not even a God could be absolute.



I beg to differ. We have a lot of absolute truths 'hard coded' into the universe. I don't think random chance can create everything, including random chance. We have mathematics, logic, and laws (etc) that are absolute. I think that's the reflection of an absolute, and consistent, creator.

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Infact if you ask me, the word absolute doesn't quite have a meaning in the real word, when talking about the big picture of things anyway ...



This has been a rather illuminating discussion.

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